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Author Topic: i am so sick of the printing module...  (Read 7640 times)

zobelaudio

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i am so sick of the printing module...
« on: November 11, 2016, 03:08:31 PM »

last chance for Epson and LR,

for years I have had the most ridiculous things coming out of my Epson 3800 when trying to print to ilford rollpaper.
I would put in a custom size like 431,87 or 432mm in width and the length that I would need, like 500mm for a print from my 645Z.
I check those measurements everytime before I print.
I would register that as a custom preset and it would work.
one day.
next day i would try printing with the exakt same preset and the result would besomething like this.
see attachment

or I would print to Hahnemuehle photo cards and work out a preset that would put the file smack in the middle . nice.
next day I print from the same preset and baaammmm
see attachment

everynow and then I reset all the presets and delete the printer and reinstall drivers and so on.

I am about to buy Mirage print, although its very expensive, but hopefully it will deliver and not F up like LR does so often,
or is it me ?
please say it's me or vodoo or the moon or the election...
cheers
Stephan
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Mark D Segal

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 06:25:33 PM »

It's you, voodoo or the election. That printer normally delivers highly consistent output from session to session. It is of course impossible to diagnose what's going on from the information in your post. Why are you using roll paper in a 3800? Not meant for it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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zobelaudio

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2016, 05:21:03 AM »

Hi Marc,
 I often do quite large panoramas and the roll ( cut up before using ) is the only way to achieve these.
Also the idea was to not waste paper when doing 4x5 or 4x3 ratio prints.
and I got it to work often enough. well, not really enough as you are reading above.
with the ImagePrint software it worked everytime.
Also with the photocards, the behaviour is nonconsistent.
So which info would you need to judge if we can solve this ?
Maybe it's altogether a problem with the custom printsizes.
I do remember the print diver even after deleting and reinstalling going back to a once safed value.

just guessing
cheers and thx for your time
Stephan

btw. using all the latest versions, uddates except not sierra but 10.11.6
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2016, 09:17:26 AM »

Hi Marc,
 I often do quite large panoramas and the roll ( cut up before using ) is the only way to achieve these.
Also the idea was to not waste paper when doing 4x5 or 4x3 ratio prints.
and I got it to work often enough. well, not really enough as you are reading above.
with the ImagePrint software it worked everytime.
Also with the photocards, the behaviour is nonconsistent.
So which info would you need to judge if we can solve this ?

Hi Stephan,

Marc is more experienced in Lightroom's quirks, so I'll leave that to him (or others) to answer.

My observation though is that many people seem to have difficulties with letting LR do what they intuitively expect it to do. When even presets stop working between sessions, I'm out, not going to waste time, material, and thus money.

I am an extremely happy camper with printing from Qimage (already for some 15 years), nowadays I'm using the latest Ultimate version. Pricing is very very modest (if not plain cheap), upgrades and updates are very affordable (one can even skip a year and resume with the latest version for only a modest upgrade fee) and, more important, image quality is second to none (maybe ImagePrint matches it, I have no direct comparison between the two). Qimage Ultimate supports any printer that is supported by the operating system, no limits on size, brand or model.

The only drawback for some is that it's a Windows OS application, but it apparently runs fine under Parallels (or Virtual PC) on Mac OS.

The user interface tends to get some flak by purists, but it is made for brutal functionality, achieving regular tasks with as few mouse-clicks or keystrokes as possible. Image resizing happens on the fly, depending on output dimensions and it matches the printer-driver's native resolution automatically, and performs very good halo-free Smart output sharpening.

Of course it also offers good options for automatic nesting if one wants to use paper more efficiently when printing different sizes of images, or multiple sized versions of single images. Panos are no problem, as long as the printer driver allows custom paper sizes that are long enough, and even then there may be workarounds with printing multiple pages edge to edge. Also things like centering prints on arbitrary physical paper sizes is simple to do and it doesn't even require wasting a single printed test page (everything is set/aligned from the user interface, with direct feedback in fractions of millimeter or inch accuracy).

Just mentioning an alternative in case you can't get the issue resolved.

Cheers,
Bart
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Mike D. B.

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2016, 09:33:18 AM »

Stephan, I've long encountered certain problems printing from various versions of LR.  Sometimes the print would be as I had set, other times only partially printed, margins didn't fit and frustrating combination of faults.

Though I can't explain why this works, my solution was quite simple: I no longer use the left hand print button in LR but the right hand printer button.  (Adobe has changed the button names over the years.)  Then all my page settings are actually printed.  Since I've used only that right hand button, I no longer encounter such print problems.

I know that sounds odd but it does works for me.  I'm convinced there is some sort of bug which causes this.  I use the most current software on my iMac, am running LR CC and print on an Epson 3880.

I've done some silly things and realized my errors but this doesn't fall into that category.  It may be worth a try.

zobelaudio

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2016, 10:52:03 AM »

Hey guys,
so grateful for your answers, will try both option and report back

cheers
Stephan
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philaitman

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 04:17:52 AM »

I'll confirm what Mike says. I  (Now) only use the printer button and my output is consistent. If I use the print button then I sometimes get spurious results.

They should remove the bloody Print button and be done with it :)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2016, 04:27:48 AM »

I'll confirm what Mike says. I  (Now) only use the printer button and my output is consistent. If I use the print button then I sometimes get spurious results.

They should remove the bloody Print button and be done with it :)

This does not reflect my experience using these options in LR. My experience of how this works as follows:

The Printer button takes you to the printer driver where you make any changes to driver settings that you require for the media you are using. Once you make those settings, click Print and LR will trigger the printing process and retain those settings until you change them. Thereafter, as long as you keep the same printer choice and driver settings, using the Print button will systematically trigger the printing process using those same driver settings. Note that the selection of the printer profile happens outside of both those controls. If you change the profile and then need to change the Media Type that corresponds with this changed profile, then you would use the Printer Button to change the Media Type in the driver, click Print, and then those changed driver settings will be systematically replicated each time you click the Print button. To sum-up, the Print button is just a short hand route to making a print using the same settings you used for the immediately previous print.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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philaitman

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2016, 05:23:55 AM »

Maybe it's user error for me. But I've had  odd print errors when using the print button, a prime example is having half an image printed then the paper ejected. If I use printer -without changing anything- then I never have an issue. I'm happy to just press Printer>Print and be safe that nothing is being messed up somewhere.
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Mike D. B.

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2016, 05:37:42 AM »

... To sum-up, the Print button is just a short hand route to making a print using the same settings you used for the immediately previous print.
Mark, there must be something interfering with that bypassing the settings to print directly.  (Thant button was once named Print One, wasn't it?)  I've never been able to use it consistently without problems.  It would print properly for a few prints, then suddenly act up.

I recall printing about 15 images for an exhibition.  After a few proper prints, suddenly only a portion of the paper would print.  I wasted a number of pages until I finally figured out my solution.  Maybe there's some bug which has infected LR (all versions) usage in Germany?  Stephan, I believe you're also located in Germany, correct?

I still have issues printing various images onto one page: look right in preview, settings are okay but the print is completely wrong.  I've given up on that.  A number of forum members had offered good advice but that problem persists.  Again, I've given up on such prints, won't tackle it again.  I'm convinced that LR doesn't function the same all over the globe, and I'm not using any plugins or exotic hard or software, just standard Mac, Adobe and Epson stuff.

Mike D. B.

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2016, 05:44:28 AM »

I'll confirm what Mike says. I  (Now) only use the printer button and my output is consistent. If I use the print button then I sometimes get spurious results.

They should remove the bloody Print button and be done with it :)
I'm glad that seems to work for you (too).  If using the RH button continues to work properly, don't try to understand why, just use it (as I do).  Odd, but so be it.  I hope you won't encounter those partial prints anymore.  I haven't.  (Keeping my fingers crossed.  ;D

Wayne Fox

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 11:58:10 AM »

I use the print button 90% of the time, and never have an issue.  But I'm also careful in that either my chosen Template is still highlighted, or I have indeed opened the print settings dialog box on the left and set everything up. If you are not working with templates, and just printing things as you go, then using the Printer ... button instead of the Print button is certainly the best practice.

I have quite a few customers come into my store with issues printing from Lr and have found that 2 things seem to lead to problems for most of them with  unexpected output, at least with the MacOS.

First, the creation of custom sizes that are incorrectly entered with the width and height being transposed because the user is putting the dimensions of a print that is in landscape orientation.  The driver needs to know how wide the sheet or roll of paper itself is, and how long of a print being made.  Then the correction orientation must be chosen to match that piece of paper.

Second, never use a MacOS custom preset in the Print Settings... dialog box when setting up the print and storing it in a template.  All settings made in the Page Setup... and Printer Settings... dialog boxes can be stored in a Lr printing preset/template ... except if you use something other than Default Settings when in the Print Settings... dialog box.  If you create a custom setting there which stores paper size and type, and are depending on that when printing, Lr seems to get confused sometimes and unexpected results occur.  If you leave that set to Default Setting and instead rely on the Lr Template storing all of  your settings it is much more reliable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I17sLsgAxr4

BradSmith

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2016, 04:17:21 PM »

I'm glad that seems to work for you (too).  If using the RH button continues to work properly, don't try to understand why, just use it (as I do).  Odd, but so be it.  I hope you won't encounter those partial prints anymore.  I haven't.  (Keeping my fingers crossed.  ;D
About a year ago, after never having had print output problems with my Eps 3800, I started randomly getting partial width prints as described here.  In this forum, I saw a work-around and it has worked perfectly for me since then.  It is the one described here by Mike D.B. and philaltman, and in detail, is as follows. 
1.  In the Print Module......In Page Setup at lower left corner, choose printer and paper size.
2.  In the right hand LR panel, set Layout and Print Job parameters, including Profile, resolution, etc.
3.  In lower right hand corner, click Printer. The driver window opens.
4.  Select your printer again.  If you've created a Preset, select it.  If not, click on Printer Settings and make appropriate choices.  Same with Advanced Media Controls.  That's it.  You're done.
5.  In the same driver window, select Print at the bottom right.  Image prints as it should.

Hope this helps others as it did me.
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kikashi

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2016, 06:22:00 PM »

Second, never use a MacOS custom preset in the Print Settings... dialog box when setting up the print and storing it in a template.

My biggest breakthrough when using LR for printing was when I realised this fact. MacOS driver presets and LR presets just do not happily coexist.

Jeremy
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BradSmith

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2016, 04:08:26 PM »

Regarding Mac OS Custom Preset template....I'm missing something. Where do you see these in the print dialog?  In Template Browser, I see only "Lightroom" templates and "User" templates that I've created.  Where/what is a Mac template?  LR 5, Mac OS 10.10.5
Brad
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Rand47

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2016, 06:57:14 PM »

I have to say that my experience has been the polar opposite.  I've printed from Lightroom since version 1 and it has only gotten better over time.  I'm a Windows user (not sure how significant that is).  I've printed to Epson printers only, 1280, 2200, 4880, R3000, P600 and P800 - all without any difficulty at all.  Presets stay "there" with no problem.  All of the issues I've had have resolved to "user error" or one kind or another. 

Good luck sorting the issue(s).

Rand
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Wayne Fox

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2016, 12:28:42 AM »

Regarding Mac OS Custom Preset template....I'm missing something. Where do you see these in the print dialog?  In Template Browser, I see only "Lightroom" templates and "User" templates that I've created.  Where/what is a Mac template?  LR 5, Mac OS 10.10.5
Brad
If you click the Print Settings ... button at the bottom of the left panel, you get this dialog box. This is a way to store many presets for macOS programs like paper size etc.  But Lr templates/presets and these presets do not get along.  If you are using a Lr printing Template, this setting should always remain at default Settings if you want to insure reliability of your Lr Template.

Mark D Segal

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2016, 01:06:52 PM »

If you click the Print Settings ... button at the bottom of the left panel, you get this dialog box. This is a way to store many presets for macOS programs like paper size etc.  But Lr templates/presets and these presets do not get along.  If you are using a Lr printing Template, this setting should always remain at default Settings if you want to insure reliability of your Lr Template.


Not my experience from the year I started printing from LR (when soft-proofing became available). As far as I know, the Print Settings button sitting beside Page Setup on the bottom left takes one to the configuration of the printer driver and allows you to SAVE that configuration, while the Printer button on the bottom right side takes one to the same driver configuration menu except the option at the end of making all those setting is to PRINT (rather than SAVE). I have been printing from MAC OSX since 2010 and never had such conflicts ss you are describing; maybe Mother Luck, who knows. The only issue I've experienced is that periodically after making a new set of adjustments or done anything on the printer LCD, if I click PRINT (the button on the left of the right-hand Printer button) nothing happens, but clicking PRINTER and then PRINT for the first print works; thereafter clicking PRINT using the same settings works.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Wayne Fox

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2016, 06:22:05 PM »

I didn't come up with this, in fact I think Andrew Rodney was the one that pointed it out in a thread a few years ago.

I've worked with several people both online and at my store that were used to using the OS presets in the printer driver's dialog box, and couldn't figure out why their Lr templates seemed to work fine, then suddenly became flakey, similar to Jeremy's experience. 

One solution is to never use the Print button as has been discussed in this thread, and indeed it allows you to make sure something didn't get set wrong.  But the Print button can be very reliable as well.

Additionally if you have issues printing and need to reset the printing system on the mac, all of  those presets are gone. None of the Lr templates are affect.

The Lr template can store 100% of the settings in that dialog box, just like the OS/printer driver preset.  They are redundant.  What it seem to have trouble storing is a OS/driver preset.

I use the Print button 100% of the time when I'm printing from a template.  Haven't seen an issue in years since I read that thread.

JRSmit

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Re: i am so sick of the printing module...
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2016, 11:32:59 AM »

I am using LR printing for years and thousands of prints. None of these issues encountered. I use Windows.
I work with print templates per paper and per printer. I use the print collection to store the print job. Looks like MacOS    does funny things.
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