Kevin and the "Olympus OMD camera system."

[viewfinder]

Pieter,.....Like you, i don't own any m4/3 camera "system", and after taking a good look I doubt I will as the annoyance level is not for me, and i suspect, not for you either.     Also, on m4/3 models it's not possible to "not use" areas of feature reliably...the cameras typically have their own irritating intrusions that are not easy to eliminate permanently.   Try for yourself;....go to a camera dealers and spend some time with OMD and try to set it up from scratch!....firstly you need to memorize the hundred plus page users manual, then decipher what is good for you and then finally, you have to keep those settings during use.   if you succeed then good for you, but will you be able to just pick the camera up next week and still be able to use it efficiently?....Doubtful!    Essentially these are amateur cameras that need coinstant use to retain familiarity and that is not usually possible for amateurs!

...When a good image turns up these are NOT the cameras to be holding...at least not for me!

The Sony camera have been criticised for their menu layout but they tend to look good compared to m4/3 and they do at least stay adjusted!

[bjanes]

I use a RIP as many of you know and that does allow me to pull more out of a file and print bigger.  However, seeing how I have used many large MP cameras I get tp be a bit picky about print quality.

I would be interested in how much more you can pull out of a file with an RIP such as ImagePrint, which is not a particularly cost effective solution, since it costs nearly as much as the printers with which it is used. For example, US $895 for the Epson P800 which sells for $1195 at B&H (now $895 with a $300 rebate). It is my belief that the printer manufacturer should be able to provide a satisfactory driver for their hardware. Personally, I would never shell out for such an unreasonably priced product. Alternatives such as Qimage are more reasonably priced.

Regards,

Bill

[davidlandry]

Frank - I wish the m4/3rds ecosystem played as well across systems as was the initial hope when the standard was announced. But as usual it is the manufacturers angling for advantage that makes it worse for the consumer.  One of the first lens purchases I made for my Olympus OM-D EM-5 was the Panasonic 20mm 1.7.  Unfortunately many users reported purple fringing when shooting wide open – but only on Olympus cameras (to be fair I did not experience this issue).  More troubling is how image stabilization is so proprietary and incompatible on the m4/3rd system (I wish Panasonic had just licensed it from Olympus).  If it was not for incompatible stabilization I would have bought a Panasonic 100-400 lens, but to be unable to use Panasonic lens stabilization on a Olympus system, especially when Olympus has shown how effective IBIS AND lens stabilization can be, just turns me away from that option (see Robin Wong’s OM-D EM1 II review that includes 5 second hand held shots with the new Olympus 12-100 lens).

[Camerajim]

..will you be able to just pick the camera up next week and still be able to use it efficiently?.

Yes. All of the OM-D models have custom presets which let you save your settings for a variety of shooting situations. In the latest iterations, these are not lost when shutting down or even when installing new firmware updates. I have presets for basic landscape shooting with a tripod, for studio flash, and for hi-res mode, plus a fourth for my wife (as bulletproof as I could make it).

There is also the Super Control Panel display, which puts the most used menu items a click away. There is an extensive menu system, but it is not often necessary to dip into that once you set the camera up for your preferences.

As for this being an "amateur" camera system, well, i just got done beating a couple of dozen photographers in a landscape competition. My "amateur" m43 cameras took home an individual first place, plus "Artists Choice" as best in show for my full exhibit of 10 landscapes. Total prize money was $4,500. I took $3,000 of that against a passel of full frame cameras. That's in addition to my usual gigs doing corporate headshots and product photos. Same "amateur" cameras.

[scooby70]

Pieter,.....Like you, i don't own any m4/3 camera "system", and after taking a good look I doubt I will as the annoyance level is not for me, and i suspect, not for you either.     Also, on m4/3 models it's not possible to "not use" areas of feature reliably...the cameras typically have their own irritating intrusions that are not easy to eliminate permanently.   Try for yourself;....go to a camera dealers and spend some time with OMD and try to set it up from scratch!....firstly you need to memorize the hundred plus page users manual, then decipher what is good for you and then finally, you have to keep those settings during use.   if you succeed then good for you, but will you be able to just pick the camera up next week and still be able to use it efficiently?....Doubtful!    Essentially these are amateur cameras that need coinstant use to retain familiarity and that is not usually possible for amateurs!

...When a good image turns up these are NOT the cameras to be holding...at least not for me!

The Sony camera have been criticised for their menu layout but they tend to look good compared to m4/3 and they do at least stay adjusted!

Really? I have three MFT cameras and in use they're no different to my DSLR's apart from the EVF and in view goodies and the fact that anyone can be phased by them phases me

The first thing I do with any digital camera is go through the menu and set it up and this includes turning anything I don't want or don't understand off and once this is done that's it and I usually only go back into the menu to format the card or set the clock.

And when I pick the camera up next week it's never managed to perform a reset and is always just as I left it.

[Riverman]

I want to see a review of the new 25mm 1.2 lens.  On the other hand, if I were to pay $1200 for such a fast lens, I would want it on a full frame camera.  Still I'm curious to see how it performs. 

[pcgpcg]

Try for yourself;....go to a camera dealers and spend some time with OMD and try to set it up from scratch!....firstly you need to memorize the hundred plus page users manual, then decipher what is good for you and then finally, you have to keep those settings during use. 

Nonsense!
I am one of those people who doesn't read the manual. Consequently I am missing lots of cool little benefits I could get if I did read the manual and set up presets for different scenarios. Somehow I have struggled through without that. Basically all I did was go through the menu system one time to set date, RAW mode, etc. Yeah, the menu is huge, but reading the manual is not required to understand it. I DID read the manual to learn how to implement auto focus bracketing when that was implemented. But other than that I just turned the wheel to M, assumed that meant manual mode, and then played with the thumb wheels and found that yes, indeed, I was in manual mode because one wheel changed shutter speed and the other changed Fstop.  Two years later "read OMD manual" is still on my ToDo list and it keeps getting bumped down by higher priorities.

[aaron]

Seems like the GX8 is the bargain in the M4/3s world right now.
In the UK you can almost get three Gx8's for the price of one EM1-MKII.

That's going to be a tough sell for Olympus....

[stevesanacore]

Pieter,.....Like you, i don't own any m4/3 camera "system", and after taking a good look I doubt I will as the annoyance level is not for me, and i suspect, not for you either.     Also, on m4/3 models it's not possible to "not use" areas of feature reliably...the cameras typically have their own irritating intrusions that are not easy to eliminate permanently.   Try for yourself;....go to a camera dealers and spend some time with OMD and try to set it up from scratch!....firstly you need to memorize the hundred plus page users manual, then decipher what is good for you and then finally, you have to keep those settings during use.   if you succeed then good for you, but will you be able to just pick the camera up next week and still be able to use it efficiently?....Doubtful!    Essentially these are amateur cameras that need coinstant use to retain familiarity and that is not usually possible for amateurs!

...When a good image turns up these are NOT the cameras to be holding...at least not for me!

The Sony camera have been criticised for their menu layout but they tend to look good compared to m4/3 and they do at least stay adjusted!

I personally don't see much difference in any m4/3 or Sony or Canon or Nikon when it comes to setting them up. It's all a matter of quickly learning what buttons to push to get it going. All one needs to know if how to set it to Raw, setting the ISO, manual shutter and manual f-stop. I haven't found that to be difficult in any of these bodies. I agree that most cameras are way too complicated and filled with tons of tricks that most of us don't need or want. But once you use a camera for a few days, you learn to ignore those features and just shoot it like any other camera. In fact, take the rear LCD and tilt it up 90 degrees, hold it at waist level and it may feel just like your Rollei!

I have a few M4/3 bodies that I use for some personal work and they are truly amazing systems that are tiny to carry in comparison to DSLR's.

[Mousecop]

One of the first lens purchases I made for my Olympus OM-D EM-5 was the Panasonic 20mm 1.7.  Unfortunately many users reported purple fringing when shooting wide open...

Very few lenses have that issue -- perhaps only two you'd still want to use (20mm and Panasonic 7-14). It's because in the early days, Panasonic and Olympus handled UV filtration differently.

More troubling is how image stabilization is so proprietary and incompatible on the m4/3rd system....

That isn't a big issue either.

Olympus uses IBIS, so it can do full stabilization on any M43 lens. For years, Panasonic relied on ILIS, so it couldn't stabilize Olympus lenses. However, they are now using IBIS, so that is slowly getting resolved.

A handful of the ultra-telephoto lenses use proprietary lens stabilizers. Even without it, you still get very good stabilization on mixed platforms.

If it was not for incompatible stabilization I would have bought a Panasonic 100-400 lens, but to be unable to use Panasonic lens stabilization on a Olympus system....

You might want to rent the 100-400 and test the results, before writing it off altogether.

[scooby70]

I want to see a review of the new 25mm 1.2 lens.  On the other hand, if I were to pay $1200 for such a fast lens, I would want it on a full frame camera.  Still I'm curious to see how it performs.

Steve Huff...

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2016/11/01/the-olympus-25-f1-2-pro-arrives-1st-shots-out-of-the-box/

I'd imagine that the Oly is better wide open than a few 50mm f1.2's.

[scooby70]

Seems like the GX8 is the bargain in the M4/3s world right now.
In the UK you can almost get three Gx8's for the price of one EM1-MKII.

That's going to be a tough sell for Olympus....

I've thought about getting a GX8 myself but I can't quite get passed shutter shock. I currently have a G1, a GX7 and a G7 and the latter two are known to be affected and this worries me as it means being careful with lens choices.

I currently only have one lens which regularly displays shutter shock but it's annoyed me enough to want to avoid buying any shutter shock prone bodies in the future. GX9 with EFCS and the new shutter mechanism maybe but the current one, no thanks.

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

Then again, having the speed of a 1.2 lens with the depth of field of 2.4 is an advantage to some people.  Besides, ide much rather try to focus a lens that is f/1.4 or faster on a good evf system than on an slr or ovf.  Again, subjective. 

I want to see a review of the new 25mm 1.2 lens.  On the other hand, if I were to pay $1200 for such a fast lens, I would want it on a full frame camera.  Still I'm curious to see how it performs.

[donbga]

Pieter,.....Like you, i don't own any m4/3 camera "system", and after taking a good look I doubt I will as the annoyance level is not for me, and i suspect, not for you either.     Also, on m4/3 models it's not possible to "not use" areas of feature reliably...the cameras typically have their own irritating intrusions that are not easy to eliminate permanently.   Try for yourself;....go to a camera dealers and spend some time with OMD and try to set it up from scratch!....firstly you need to memorize the hundred plus page users manual, then decipher what is good for you and then finally, you have to keep those settings during use.   if you succeed then good for you, but will you be able to just pick the camera up next week and still be able to use it efficiently?....Doubtful!    Essentially these are amateur cameras that need coinstant use to retain familiarity and that is not usually possible for amateurs!

...When a good image turns up these are NOT the cameras to be holding...at least not for me!

The Sony camera have been criticised for their menu layout but they tend to look good compared to m4/3 and they do at least stay adjusted!

Yada - Yada - Yada.  There's a reason that the expression RTFM exists; at this point in history it's never a bad idea. When I first tested the OMD EM-1 I rented it from LensRentals.com for 7 days. I used the camera virtually in manual mode for the entire week with side trips into the other modes to compare with. As a long time Canon and Nikon DSLR user and a former Olympus film body user, I recognized the camera was a quality camera and was very smitten with it.

My first m4/3s camera was a Panasonic GX1. I liked the camera but the IQ wasn't always up to snuff when especially compared side by side with the OMD EM-1 and further comparisons with the Canon SLT 100.

So before you go about anecdotally trashing a camera that you may have spent a half hour using in a camera store rent it and give it a true test.

[Telecaster]

I've thought about getting a GX8 myself but I can't quite get passed shutter shock.

Electronic shutter. Unless you're taking pics of fast-moving subjects—potential motion artifacts—it does the job. I always use it except when taking >1 second exposures on a tripod (no shutter shock seen to date).

-Dave-

[pegelli]

Pieter,.....Like you, i don't own any m4/3 camera "system", and after taking a good look I doubt I will as the annoyance level is not for me, and i suspect, not for you either.     Also, on m4/3 models it's not possible to "not use" areas of feature reliably...the cameras typically have their own irritating intrusions that are not easy to eliminate permanently.   Try for yourself;....go to a camera dealers and spend some time with OMD and try to set it up from scratch!....firstly you need to memorize the hundred plus page users manual, then decipher what is good for you and then finally, you have to keep those settings during use.   if you succeed then good for you, but will you be able to just pick the camera up next week and still be able to use it efficiently?....Doubtful!    Essentially these are amateur cameras that need coinstant use to retain familiarity and that is not usually possible for amateurs!

...When a good image turns up these are NOT the cameras to be holding...at least not for me!

The Sony camera have been criticised for their menu layout but they tend to look good compared to m4/3 and they do at least stay adjusted!

Thanks for responding and indeed every camera and menu system has some quirks but in my mind they can all be worked out pretty quickly. However you were complaining about "over engineered options" and not about "difficult user interface" which I think are very different things. But both can be easily solved if you're longing for the Rolleiflex experience you seem to be craving for. Don't use the menu and don't use the options. Stay at base ISO, Shoot Manual mode and MF and none of the "problems" you're experiencing will be there. 

[viewfinder]

pegelli,.......thanks for the helpful pointers to where I'm going wrong but, with respect, you need to go and look at these cameras yourself and then you will see what i mean...it's NOT possible to reliably 'set to snap' as you are implying.    My wife has a m4/3 panasonic (G5) and that is beset with the same 'design ethos'....it's simply NOT possible to use the thing reliably from one week to the next because it's crammed full of irritating and largely pointless features and, yes, over engineered to the point of being unreliable in use.    it's not feasible to use it without upsetting any settings inadvertantly.......focus cursor(s) has an apparent mind of it's own and there are 4 levels of RAW, iso speed changes apparently at will(but impossible to find when needed) and the whole thing is impossible to memorise.......the body is small and badly designed so that it is impossible to use it without pressing the several rogue buttons.

all the psudeo m4/3 'pretend dslrs' are like this so go and take a look and see if I'm not right!....they are not for people like you, or me!

For example of what I mean;.....i have been recently using a friends fuji xe-1.  It was possible to set the thing up with stable focus point and 'A' setting and easy grasp of iso in a few minutes.  this camera has not changed it's tune in several weeks and is completely reliable in use.   a world away from most m4/3 dslr types.

[stamper]

Pieter,.....Like you, i don't own any m4/3 camera "system", and after taking a good look I doubt I will as the annoyance level is not for me, and i suspect, not for you either.     Also, on m4/3 models it's not possible to "not use" areas of feature reliably...the cameras typically have their own irritating intrusions that are not easy to eliminate permanently.   Try for yourself;....go to a camera dealers and spend some time with OMD and try to set it up from scratch!....firstly you need to memorize the hundred plus page users manual, then decipher what is good for you and then finally, you have to keep those settings during use.   if you succeed then good for you, but will you be able to just pick the camera up next week and still be able to use it efficiently?....Doubtful!    Essentially these are amateur cameras that need coinstant use to retain familiarity and that is not usually possible for amateurs!

...When a good image turns up these are NOT the cameras to be holding...at least not for me!

The Sony camera have been criticised for their menu layout but they tend to look good compared to m4/3 and they do at least stay adjusted!

It looks as if you set out NOT to like the camera system? Nothing is perfect and one thing is certain you don't have to memorize anything. You set a function the way you want it and forget it. Calling a camera amateur  is disparaging. Are you a professional?

[scooby70]

Electronic shutter. Unless you're taking pics of fast-moving subjects—potential motion artifacts—it does the job. I always use it except when taking >1 second exposures on a tripod (no shutter shock seen to date).

-Dave-

I'm not worried about rolling shutter but I do quite a bit of shooting indoors under artificial lighting and banding can be a problem.

At the moment my solution is to use the electronic shutter when shooting outdoors and to use a trusted lens when shooting in situations when banding could occur. Having to worry about body and lens combination to avoid this isn't ideal.

[pegelli]

pegelli,.......thanks for the helpful pointers to where I'm going wrong but, with respect, you need to go and look at these cameras yourself and then you will see what i mean...it's NOT possible to reliably 'set to snap' as you are implying.    My wife has a m4/3 panasonic (G5) and that is beset with the same 'design ethos'....it's simply NOT possible to use the thing reliably from one week to the next because it's crammed full of irritating and largely pointless features and, yes, over engineered to the point of being unreliable in use.    it's not feasible to use it without upsetting any settings inadvertantly.......focus cursor(s) has an apparent mind of it's own and there are 4 levels of RAW, iso speed changes apparently at will(but impossible to find when needed) and the whole thing is impossible to memorise.......the body is small and badly designed so that it is impossible to use it without pressing the several rogue buttons.

I really need to try one, I have some friends who use a Oly PEN-F and maybe I can borrow one for a few hours to see how it works. It's hard to imagine you can't set it up "simple" and just leave it that way but the proof will be in the actual doing.