A7RII: Front wheel not changing settings (Shutter speed in M mode)

[Hywel]

The A7RII is a bit of a flawed masterpiece, isn't it?

On the one hand I love the resolution, the IBIS, the low light performance, the 85mm G Master lens, and a lot of the shots I get with the camera.

On the other hand the ergonomics just plain suck. I've had it a year, shot tens of thousands of shots with it, and still whenever I meet a slightly new situation I can guarantee I'll be chimping away for a while trying to find which setting to change. And good though the PDAF is, it is virtually uncontrollable.

In AFC you can see which little green boxes the camera is instantly focussing on... but OVER-RIDING it's decision and getting it to focus on the correct thing is a virtual impossibility in real-time. It's fine for relaxed landscape shooting, barely possible for human models posing normally in studio settings, and ridiculously laughable for stuff like wild animals moving about.

It needs a complete repacking and ground-up interface redesign putting the ergonomics at the top of the design criteria, in my opinion. The guts can stay the same- the technology inside is absolutely brilliant. But someone needs to take a serious step back and design a package with a view to how a photographer, rather than an engineer, wants to actually control things.

First priority? A (fully-articulated) touch screen to implement touch-to-focus. I used the touch-to-focus on a Canon 1DX Mark II a few weeks ago and it is THE ANSWER for controlling focus.

I hope Sony take a breather and spend time on the A7RIII to concentrate on ergonomics and control issues. The guts can stay the same as far as I'm concerned- there's still nothing else from any competing manufacturer that comes close to the broad capability of the A7RII. But I have to say my hit rate of good shots is MUCH better with my Hasselblad, simply because focus-and-recompose is so much more reliable at hitting the correct focus mark than any method I've tried with the Sony.

Cheers, Hywel.


I use the camera a lot, incidentally. But I don't really love it, so much as tolerate its poor interface to get access to the wide "shooting envelope" the camera opens up.

[Manoli]

Hywel,

Dunno about AF-C, I don't use it, but AF-S and DMF have been 100% accurate, and I've been an A7x user since the first 'r' came out. I haven't used 'eye detection' often enough to comment but in my limited tests ( 55/1.8, a couple of Canon's and a Batis 85) it's been good, very good. DOF is so narrow in the new high MP digital realm that I'd say that single feature is critical for anyone doing portraiture.

ITM I, like you, use focus-and-recompose just as easily on the Sony (with centre spot AF) as on MF.

First priority? A (fully-articulated) touch screen to implement touch-to-focus. I used the touch-to-focus on a Canon 1DX Mark II a few weeks ago and it is THE ANSWER for controlling focus.

Agreed.

[Hywel]

Dunno about AF-C, I don't use it, but AF-S and DMF have been 100% accurate, and I've been an A7x user since the first 'r' came out. I haven't used 'eye detection' often enough to comment but in my limited tests ( 55/1.8, a couple of Canon's and a Batis 85) it's been good, very good. DOF is so narrow in the new high MP digital realm that I'd say that single feature is critical for anyone doing portraiture.

ITM I, like you, use focus-and-recompose just as easily on the Sony (with centre spot AF) as on MF.

I *think* I've tried every mode and permutation of AF on the Sony!

I use eye-focus in AF-S for model shots in the studio, but it's not foolproof. It's accurate, but sometimes it accurately focusses on the wrong thing, or more commonly fails to lock on. A lock of hair falling over one eye often flummoxes it completely, for example. I've a vague feeling AF-C works a bit better with eye-focus for me- at least I get a better feeling for what it is focussing on, anyway.

I usually fall back to focus-and-recompose with centre spot AF when I think it is going a bit wrong or failing to lock on. That's definitely more hit-and-miss, and my eyesight isn't good enough these days to tell if it has really got focus, or just focussed on something close which isn't what I actually want it to focus on.  (Hair vs. eyeball, for example).

If I think it is really struggling, I'll go to manual focus (or DMF). It's lovely that it then zooms in and lets you really nail focus - better than an SLR viewfinder, that- but it does slow one down and if the model or you move so much as a centimetre, you have to redo it, which is a bit painful.

So when it works, it works really well, but when you need to over-ride it, the ergonomics of doing so come up short for me.

As I said my experience is that my hit-rate of nailing focus on the Sony is a fair way behind my hit rate of nailing focus with the Hasselblad. After a year or so of using the Sony, I'm finally prepared to call that out as being more due to the difficulty of over-riding the camera's PDAF decisions than due to my ineptitude I think.

Roll on the A7RIII, or an "A9" with the A7RII's guts in a slightly larger dSLR style body with the all important fully articulated touch screen!

Cheers, Hywel

[davidgp]

Roll on the A7RIII, or an "A9" with the A7RII's guts in a slightly larger dSLR style body with the all important fully articulated touch screen!

Well, the a6500 has a touch screen that allows to select the focus point using it... let's hope Sony continues building over it in their next generation of full frame cameras...


http://dgpfotografia.com

[Manoli]

Hywel -
Thanks for the feedback,  I'll try the AF-C and 'eye' combination.

Manoli

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

As I am tripod bound most of the time I am happy to use manual focus. For that I essentially always use maximum magnification. The 5X stuff is not good enough.

My reading was that 'eye focus' was for AF-C, but I did run some tests with AF-S and it seemed to work. Work well? I don't know. Don't shoot that stuff.

For off center AF I always move the AF-point. I use the center button in the four-way controller to select both the AF-mode and move the focusing spot. I almost always use flexible spot, medium. Flexible spot small does not work for me.

For macro shooting, the flexible AF and the tilted display is a godbless. I can have the camera 5cm above ground and still focus reliably where I want.

My experience with AF is a bit mixed:

• Sony A7rII + Metabones IV-T + Canon 24-105/4L - very good
• Sony A7rII + Viltrox + Canon 24-105/4L - pretty dismal
• Sony A7II + Sony 28-70 kit lens - pretty dismal
• Sony A7RII + LA-EA3 and Sony 70-400/4-5.6 - very good
• Sony A7RII + Sony 90/2.8 - very good

I sometimes use Sony A7II + Sony 28-70 as a walk around combo, but the A7II mostly serves as a back up. The Viltrox adapter is also a back up.

I sort of aim for having a back up option on travel. So, I carry:

• Sony A7rII with the Metabones IV-T
• Sony A7II (Backup) with a Viltrox adapter (backup)
• Canon 16-35/4L
• Canon 24-105/4L
• Sony 70-400/4-5.6G
• Contax 35-135/3.3-4.5 (for Scheimpflug and backup)
• Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII (for shifts)

Must say, I have been extremely lucky. None of my cameras really failed in 46 years, except a Minolta XD-11.

Best regards
Erik

Hywel -
Thanks for the feedback,  I'll try the AF-C and 'eye' combination.

Manoli

[Phil Indeblanc]

helpful info Erik.  I am thinking of adding the Sigma adapter to give a go, although I have the Metabones IV-T (At least I think I do), I updated the firmware recently to .53v

I used it to adapt the Sigma 150-600mm S to shoot the supermoon last night, so it was manual focus, but I think it should work well in ap-c. Will try it out. I used the 50mm Sigma with it and it work very good. SO I have to see what advantage the MC11 gives, as I read it does Canon older lenses better, and my 70-200, and 24-70 is the older L series. The Metabones, doesn't do bad in it, but I noticed either my use was wrong, or some features it doesnt support.

So many focus combo options, it really does need a dedicated wheel knob on the left top of camera :-)

[Manoli]

The Metabones, doesn't do bad in it, but I noticed either my use was wrong, or some features it doesnt support.

Phil - does this help ?
http://metabones.com/article/of/green-power-save-mode

ps I've got/use the MC-11 as well as the Metabones latest .53 - comment later

Erik-
Many thanks for the input. Am rushing but will revert asap ...

[Phil Indeblanc]

YEs, I think that link helps me understand that the adapter doesn't really have any modes that I can see of its own! :-)...

Its just how the camera can work, and what you decide to put the camera in...so the adapter is reacting to the setting in the camera. Not that the adapter actually has 2 modes. Or am I missing something? I tried pressing the button on left, with no change or options etc.
I only saw a few options after the firmware update, and I cant remember the few options it gave.

[Manoli]

Phil -

Green mode gives you PDAF, NO Eye-AF, wider compatibility
Advanced mode gives you  PDAF only in centre, contrast detect, Eye-AF, better for telephoto.

And no, you won't see any change, it's just the way the adapter works.
The updater gives you the options to:
- set advanced mode permanently
- choose between IBIS and OIS (or both)
- close aperture diaphragm (to smallest) – leave unchecked to set lens aperture 'as-is'
- park lens at infinity – useful for STM lenses.

The MC-11 , well built, smooth, officially only for Sigma lenses, but in the little playing (emphasis on playing) seemed to work with any Canon lens I stuck on it including the 24-105/4 zoom. You'll need the Sigma dock too, and that is also used for fine-tuning AF. Never needed it , never tried it.

BUT - unless you use it in full manual mode, it has an annoying aperture blade 'chatter' which is missing when I've tried the Sigma on the Metabones. Don't overlook this point, I found it really irritating and also IMO, slowed the reaction time after tripping the shutter. Smaller the aperture, longer the chatter. Ended up buying a second Metabones smart adapter IV. Most of the time I'm using that 50 either wide open or f4 but if you're an f8 or higher man , be warned!

[davidgp]

• Sony A7rII with the Metabones IV-T
• Sony A7II (Backup) with a Viltrox adapter (backup)
• Canon 16-35/4L
• Canon 24-105/4L
• Sony 70-400/4-5.6G
• Contax 35-135/3.3-4.5 (for Scheimpflug and backup)
• Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII (for shifts)

Sorry for the bit out of the topic question, but have you used the 70-400 for landscape photography? I read I has a bit of field curvature making not idea for this....


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[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Yes, I am frequently using it for landscape. It is my most used lens with the A7rII.

Regarding the field curvature, I have often seen that, or something similar. But, it used not to be a problem in my landscape shots, mostly because it affects the outer areas of the image mostly.

I have posted a bunch from that lens here: https://echophoto.smugmug.com/Technical/70400456G/  the latest ones were shot on the A7rII. The images are available in full size (Original) and free to download, AFAIK.

Best regards
Erik

Sorry for the bit out of the topic question, but have you used the 70-400 for landscape photography? I read I has a bit of field curvature making not idea for this....


Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk

[davidgp]

Many thanks!!! I will take close look at your shots

Hi,

Yes, I am frequently using it for landscape. It is my most used lens with the A7rII.

Regarding the field curvature, I have often seen that, or something similar. But, it used not to be a problem in my landscape shots, mostly because it affects the outer areas of the image mostly.

I have posted a bunch from that lens here: https://echophoto.smugmug.com/Technical/70400456G/  the latest ones were shot on the A7rII. The images are available in full size (Original) and free to download, AFAIK.

Best regards
Erik

Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk

[Phil Indeblanc]

Phil -

Green mode gives you PDAF, NO Eye-AF, wider compatibility
Advanced mode gives you  PDAF only in centre, contrast detect, Eye-AF, better for telephoto.

And no, you won't see any change, it's just the way the adapter works.
The updater gives you the options to:
- set advanced mode permanently
- choose between IBIS and OIS (or both)
- close aperture diaphragm (to smallest) – leave unchecked to set lens aperture 'as-is'
- park lens at infinity – useful for STM lenses.

The MC-11 , well built, smooth, officially only for Sigma lenses, but in the little playing (emphasis on playing) seemed to work with any Canon lens I stuck on it including the 24-105/4 zoom. You'll need the Sigma dock too, and that is also used for fine-tuning AF. Never needed it , never tried it.

BUT - unless you use it in full manual mode, it has an annoying aperture blade 'chatter' which is missing when I've tried the Sigma on the Metabones. Don't overlook this point, I found it really irritating and also IMO, slowed the reaction time after tripping the shutter. Smaller the aperture, longer the chatter. Ended up buying a second Metabones smart adapter IV. Most of the time I'm using that 50 either wide open or f4 but if you're an f8 or higher man , be warned!

Thanks, I thought it would be an option or something, but I see that the camera dictates it and the adapter complies.
I am thinking the MC11 might be a good addition, or change my older L 24-70 USM to the newer II L USM. Better lens and will work faster with Metabones. But that also leaves my older 70-200 needing upgrade....ugh,

MC-11 maybe it for my lens line up.

[Manoli]

Thanks, I thought it would be an option or something, but I see that the camera dictates it and the adapter complies.

Phil -

Nope. On the Metabones the current default is 'Green' mode. You can change it on the fly by depressing a button on the LHS each time you attach a lens. Removing the lens resets the adapter to the default - no further interaction necessary.

The updater gives you the option to set either mode as the default.

[Phil Indeblanc]

Oh...!!!
Now it makes sense :-)

I hope that it wasn't mentioned earlier. I did read all, but perhaps not as carefully :-)

Thanks!