Blue haze added by Lightroom

[MikeHit]

Hi

I have a problem that is driving me nuts.
My screen is calibrated with Spyder 3 Pro. I am using Lightroom 5.7 to print and printing to Canon iP8750 with Canon inks and Canon paper and using Canon's ICC profiles. When I am in the Develop module and press the 'soft proof' checkbox a blue haze appears over the image and this same haze appears on the prints as an almost pearlescent haze. The haze disappears from the screen when I turn softpoofing off (but still appears on the print).
This happens if even if I print on other papers and whatever profiles I choose (even ones for Permajet paper). it also happens if I select the printer to manage colours.

This does not happen when printing the same image through Elements 14 and manually selecting the profiles used above.

The fact that the haze appears in softproofing makes me conclude that it is something happening within Lightroom and makes softproofing (and printing) impossible.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what can be happening?

Kind regards
Mike

[MikeHit]

PS - I have added two images that show the haze that appears. I cna imagine that in some instances it will be quite attractive, but not on an eagle 

[RMW]

Hi Mike.
I'm no expert on this phenomenon. However, do you think what you're seeing is the color of the paper ? Or, could the screen image and print require more contrast ? Have you tried a test sheet, like the one available from Digital Dog ?
Wish I could offer more precise support.
Richard

[MikeHit]

Thanks for your reply Richard.
At first I did think it may be the paper then I looked at the soft proof and the haze was there on screen and the haze came and went as I toggled 'soft proof' on/off. This is where I think it is a software issue not one of paper. And a blue pearlescence to the whites suggests it is not a contrast issue. I messed around with all sorts of HSL settings and none affected it.

When soft proofing I also applied different profiles and the blueness appeared in the same way, and I did a few test prints with different papers and different profiles (even profiles that did not match the paper) and the blueness was apparent to varying degrees. And the fact a print from Elements 14 does not have the haze suggests something within Lightroom is causing it.

[DaveRichardson]

Mike
The blue haze in the soft proof is fairly normal and can be switched in and out with the check box "Simulate Paper and Ink". It is simulating the bluish white of the paper and that the black ink is not entirely dark.
However that should only affect your screen softproof preview and not make the output to the printer even bluer.

Dave

[DaveRichardson]

I should have added - if your prints are a good match to your screen soft proof - then that is the aim of the soft proofing and why you have an option in Lightroom soft proof to "create a Proof Copy" to allow you to further correct for your print output without altering the master.
Dave

[TonyW]

... I am using Lightroom 5.7 to print and printing to Canon iP8750 with Canon inks and Canon paper and using Canon's ICC profiles. When I am in the Develop module and press the 'soft proof' checkbox a blue haze appears over the image and this same haze appears on the prints as an almost pearlescent haze. The haze disappears from the screen when I turn softpoofing off (but still appears on the print).
This happens if even if I print on other papers and whatever profiles I choose (even ones for Permajet paper). it also happens if I select the printer to manage colours.

What you appear to be describing sounds like normal LR behaviour, or in fact any correctly colour managed application when using soft proofing. 

What is a little confusing is that in your post you are showing images with a colour profile from a Fuji Frontier printer supplied by DS Colour Labs, which if used with your Canon printer will print unpredictably in comparison to what you see on screen.  You need to select the correct Canon paper profile to guarantee a closer fit WYSIWYG.

You must also make sure that you toggle between LR managing printing and printer manages printing in both LR and your Canon driver which should be set in the Page setup menu in LR first

This does not happen when printing the same image through Elements 14 and manually selecting the profiles used above.

Not familiar with PSE 14 colour management but this suggests that Elements colour management may not be set correctly.

Rather than use your own PSD image as in the example I would suggest that you play with a known reference image such as the Pixl one linked below.  This also has info boxes explaining what you should be looking for:
http://www.pixl.dk/download/

A quick example in LR (my best shot of a bird to date - waited ages to get it in flight but did not happen  ).  Wait for image to change and note differences in image colour.  You may want to switch on side by side view in LR softproofing - it may help getting closer to screen print match
1.  Simulate off
2.  Simulate on with DC frontier glossy profile (if sending to DS labs)
3.  Create Proof with adjustments to get a more pleasing image a little closer to what seen on screen (I know it is not exact but... )

[MikeHit]

Thanks Dave, Thanks Tony

I think I may have solved it and it all comes down to the multitude of options you get between LR and the printer drivers.

In the Canon printer control panel is a checkbox for Colour/Intensity Manual Adjustment and when that is checked it leads to a Dialog box where you can set all sorts of standard presets. It has a tab labelled 'Matching' and has the options:
-  Driver Matching (default)
-  ICM (options Input profile: Standard and Rendering Intent: Saturation/Perceptual/Relative Colorimetric/Absolute Colorimetric)
-  None

If it is set to 'Driver Matching' I get the blue haze on the printout. I presume the driver set is somehow affecting he printout
If I set it so 'None' or 'ICM' I do not get the blue haze. I am now testing to see how the different settings affect the image.

None of these settings stop the blue haze appearing in the softproofing but it may affect the intensity of the haze.


As I mentioned previously, I printed from Elements but did not get the blue haze on the print. I installed Elements+ and used the softproofing function and that also gave the same blue haze on screen but not on the print. So it seems there is some interaction between the application and the printer even if LR and PSE seem so do it differently.


Tony - I have not yet had chance to play around with the download target you linked to but I will certainly check it out. My printer ran out of ink amidst these tests but at least I will have a better idea of how to get the best out of it!

Thank you everyone for the help you have offered.
 

[TonyW]

...I think I may have solved it and it all comes down to the multitude of options you get between LR and the printer drivers...

Yes that is why I said

You must also make sure that you toggle between LR managing printing and printer manages printing in both LR and your Canon driver which should be set in the Page setup menu in LR first

You must first make sure that you set up both LR and the Printer dialogue to reflect what you want to do i.e. If you wish LR to handle colour management you must turn off colour management in the printer driver.  On the other hand if you want to let the printer handle all then you must select the option of Printer in LR dialogue

Typical Canon print dialogue below:

1 For LR to handle colour management using your ICC profile:  Select > Manual adjustment
Must be set to None.  Do not select ICM or driver matching

The following setting control how the driver manages
Driver Matching: Print sRGB data with colour tints user choice. Driver Matching is the default setting for Color Correction.
ICM:  Is Windows colour management
None:  The printer driver does not perform any colour adjustment. This is the value you need to select prior to printing when letting the application do colour management.  Note: the warning in LR to turn management off in the print driver when selecting icc profiles

[MikeHit]

Simple when you know, huh?

Thanks again