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Author Topic: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?  (Read 2982 times)

ErikKaffehr

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That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« on: October 27, 2016, 02:26:46 pm »

Hi,

Kevin is very enthusiastic about the IQ3-100MP. I was a bit a surprised, as I think that going CMOS should make full frame 645 more useful, but the increase in resolution is just 11%, that should barely be noticeable… How wrong can I be?! Pretty much wrong…

I recalled that DPreview has a fairly useful comparison image and they have long used the Phase One IQ 180 as a reference, recently they also tested the IQ3-100MP. My favourite raw converter Lightroom doesn't support the IQ3-100MP. So I used Capture One 9.3, turning of sharpening and noise reduction and the scientific linear curve on both. Exported both to TIFF and uprezzed the IQ180 image to IQ3-100MP dimensions and sharpened at default settings in FocusMagic.

The short story is that the IQ3-100 MP is playing in another league. Much sharper, more detail and less artefacts… Great quality that comes at significant cost.

In short, the IQ3-100 MP seems to be a worthy upgrade. A lot of money, of course, but also a real step forward…

It seems that Kevin is right, the IQ3-100MP may be a real and significant step forward, not just in convenience but also real raw image quality.

Im am somewhat surprised but above all impressed!

Best regards
Erik

Ps. Yes, I may be jumping conclusions after comparing just one image. But, I would say that I now understand why Kevin is that much impressed.



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Paul2660

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 03:16:26 pm »

Hi Eric:

Interesting comparison, are the IQ100 tests on the left side?

Thanks
Paul Caldwell
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 03:21:44 pm »

Hi Paul,

Yes, they are on the left.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Eric:

Interesting comparison, are the IQ100 tests on the left side?

Thanks
Paul Caldwell
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MarkoRepse

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2016, 03:38:28 pm »

One is in focus, the other isnt. Thats it.
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eronald

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 03:47:24 pm »

One is in focus, the other isnt. Thats it.

I agree that if there is no antialising going on we should see some aliasing as the resolution runs out.

Focus, lens, cover glass, vibration  etc .

I would like to compliment Erik on the idea of going to get data where it can be found. But in this case the data may not be impeccable.

Edmund
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 03:53:06 pm by eronald »
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Wayne Fox

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2016, 04:16:13 pm »

Possibly, but that dollar bill is 6” long on a about a 4x5 foot target that is being shot, so it’s some pretty small micro detail. (see attachment)  I think DPreview is pretty technical about setting up these test shots.

However, there certainly might be a few more explanations than simply resolution ... I assume the 180 was shot on a DF, and since it’s a 180 might even be before any of the LS glass was introduced. Also not sure how they focused the target .. maybe using LiveView on the IQ3 100 just allowed them to nail focus (which applies to real world resolution if you choose to use Live View to focus).  So I won’t discount “focus”, yet would offer that it’s probably a little more complex than they just didn’t get it focused.

I will say that as one who just moved  from a 180 to a IQ3 100, I have been impressed with micro detail rendition ... more of an improvement than I was expecting given the incremental jump in resolution. But then I focus only using LiveView and shoot primarily with the Electronic Shutter, so maybe it’s as much about getting perfect focus, and zero camera movement.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2016, 04:17:01 pm »

One is in focus, the other isnt. Thats it.

Hi,

While there is always a chance of some of that getting in the way, defocus would also kill the chance of aliasing having a chance to begin with, yet there is more aliasing in the displayed 80MP image segments.

The smaller sample pitch (4.6 vs 5.2 micron, a benefit of 11.5%) also plays a role in the improved captured image quality of the I3 100MP and subsequent demosaicing. The denser sampling also boosts the system performance of a given lens, yet the IQ3 100MP suffers very little from remaining aliasing artifacts despite all suppression being switched off.

Cheers,
Bart
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2016, 04:33:04 pm »

Hi,

I would guess that DPReview is doing a lot of focus bracketing. I would also guess that neither image is out of focus, as both show aliasing, the IQ 180 a lot more than the IQ3-100.

These IQ-180 image is upscaled to 100 MP, and that can be pretty rude to an image.

Capture one does apply more sharpening and less noise reduction to the IQ3100M image, but I tried to use similar settings.

Regarding camera vibrations and stuff, I would guess that both represent state of the art when the shots were made.

Best regards
Erik

Hi,

While there is always a chance of some of that getting in the way, defocus would also kill the chance of aliasing having a chance to begin with, yet there is more aliasing in the displayed 80MP image segments.

The smaller sample pitch (4.6 vs 5.2 micron, a benefit of 11.5%) also plays a role in the improved captured image quality of the I3 100MP and subsequent demosaicing. The denser sampling also boosts the system performance of a given lens, yet the IQ3 100MP suffers very little from remaining aliasing artifacts despite all suppression being switched off.

Cheers,
Bart
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Bo_Dez

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2016, 05:30:06 pm »

I have used the IQ100 for the first time on a shoot this week. I am just utterly blown away.

I've never experienced such a jump in quality and usability. Handholding in low light with such a camera is a total revelation and it's opened doors that were up until recently locked shut. It works incredibly well with the Hasselblad True Focus.

I'm selling everything else and getting one.
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Kevin Raber

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2016, 03:56:45 am »

As I said you have to shoot and look at files yourself.  DPReview does a fine job but the camera needs to be experienced and especially the files.  I suggest anyone considering this camera system visit a dealer and shoot with it.  Then evaluate the files in Capture One.  More than anything else make a print from the file.  As I may have mentioned I saw great detail on the monitor on the concert hall image.  But, once I made a 44inch x 76" print detail that I thought was good on the screen became even more obvious.  I dare say the 100MP file out resolve the monitor capability.  A print a 360 ppi is stunning from this camera.  The camera technology and digital 100mp digital back set the bar very high.
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Jack Hogan

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2016, 07:44:35 am »

Hi Erik, good comparison.  One thing to keep in mind is that DPR appears to have gotten progressively better with their studio scene capture technique, especially over the last year or so.  The IQ3-100 was shot within the last couple of months, while the IQ-180 2-3 years ago.

FWIW here are green channel MTF curves of the IQ3-100MP vs other current cameras, read off DPR studio raw captures at base ISO with no demosaicing, sharpening or other processing.  MTF50s are shown in the box top right of each diagram.

Jack
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dchew

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2016, 08:44:39 am »

Like Wayne I too upgraded from the IQ180, which I've had since 2011. Since the 3100 announcement I said if I upgrade it will be for the convenience of Live view.

The two surprises have been the image quality improvement and the great new ES feature. I don't know why the files look so much better, given that 1) I had no disappointment with the 180 files and 2) 11% should be essentially unnoticed.

Dave
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: That IQ 3100MP, is Kevin right?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 01:26:24 pm »

Hi Kevin,

Technically, it is not possible to outresolve a computer screen at 1:1 magnification, as you can see each pixel. But, I can agree that large prints can impress.

I am quite comfortable with analysing raw files that other photographers have made. I don't think that it matters a lot who pressed the button. I find it a bit confusing why the IQ3100 delivers so much better IQ than the older backs, at least in good conditions.

One possible explanation may be that Capture One has a bit more sharpening and less noise reduction as default. In my little test I tried to zero out 'everything' and did sharpening in Focusmagic, but the IQ3100 was still shining a bit more than expected.

Jack Hogan made the point that DPReview has improved their shooting technique, so that may do the IQ180 some injustice.

Thanks for suggesting to testing at a dealer, but I don't dabble with things I don't plan to buy. I would also add that I don't really like the idea of working with a dealer. I much prefer to read up as much as possible, get hold of and analyse raw files and order on the net. The last time I bought something at a dealer was back in 2008.

Yes, I may be crazy, but that's just me…

Best regards
Erik


As I said you have to shoot and look at files yourself.  DPReview does a fine job but the camera needs to be experienced and especially the files.  I suggest anyone considering this camera system visit a dealer and shoot with it.  Then evaluate the files in Capture One.  More than anything else make a print from the file.  As I may have mentioned I saw great detail on the monitor on the concert hall image.  But, once I made a 44inch x 76" print detail that I thought was good on the screen became even more obvious.  I dare say the 100MP file out resolve the monitor capability.  A print a 360 ppi is stunning from this camera.  The camera technology and digital 100mp digital back set the bar very high.
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