Is it OK to never (or only rarely) print using matte black (P800)?

[Jeffrey Saldinger]

Having only recently bought a P800 and not having used (or any plans to use) matte papers, I am wondering whether there might be printer problems down the road if I don’t use the matte black (i.e. continue to use only papers requiring photo black).   The vast majority of my prints are black and white (on Epson Ultra Premium Luster, Legacy Baryta, or Canson Baryta).

I do a nozzle check every day and, wanting to “give everything a workout,” I also print each day a color image in addition to my regular black and white work (I expect to print nearly every day).

It comes to mind that I could buy some letter-size matte paper and make a print on it daily or at some other frequency (with the matte black, of course), but would this be necessary for the health of the printer? and if necessary, sufficient?  There would be “wasted” ink that way (i.e. switching blacks back and forth), but if it would avoid future problems I’d do it.

I am aware of the recommendation that inks be used within six months of installation.  How is this recommendation related to my thoughts above (i.e. could I just replace the “unused” or barely used matte cartridge with a new one every six months?).

[Mark D Segal]

I'm assuming the architecture of this printer is similar to other previous models, and in this case you need not worry about switching to matte black for cleaning. Matte and Photo Black share a channel leading through the damper into the print-head and as long as that channel is kept flowing, whether cleaned with PK or MK doesn't matter. Nor should ink expiration be a problem for quite a long time after the formal expiry date.

[Jeffrey Saldinger]

Thank you for your prompt, helpful reply, Mark.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Mark has good advice, in my experience.

I bought my 3800 about 7.5 years ago. At the beginning I printed occasionally on matte paper, but almost never after the first few months. I have made a great many prints since then on glossy paper using the PK ink. The printer was so reliable that I tended to do nozzle checks only two or three times a year, generally when a print had just come out less than perfect, usually after I had been away for a few weeks without printing.

After over seven years the printer developed problems with the black ink (PK to MK) switch, resulting in black blobs on some prints. Since that happened at a time when I was needing to make prints, and since the P800 was available with $350 in rebates, I decided it was time to upgrade.

I fully intend to be less cavalier about the p800. My plan is to do nozzle checks at least once a month, or before any important printing session, and I plan to switch to MK ink about once every six months to make a print or two just to exercise the black ink switch.

If you do choose to exercise the MK ink from time to time but don't want to make real prints, you can use sheets of plain letter-size office paper with MK ink just to exercise the printer. Plain paper can be used with either kind of ink to do nozzle checks, too.

I hope you will enjoy your P800 as much as I'm enjoying mine.

[Wayne Fox]

I don't believe the nozzles are an issue, but there definitely can be an issue with the switching mechanism and the MK damper assembly if the printer goes extended periods of time without switching.  If you never use MK ink then maybe it wouldn't matter, but I think Eric has a good plan, switching it and printing out a page or too of plain black.  Maybe every 3 months or so might be enough.

[Mark D Segal]

I don't believe the nozzles are an issue, but there definitely can be an issue with the switching mechanism and the MK damper assembly if the printer goes extended periods of time without switching.  If you never use MK ink then maybe it wouldn't matter, but I think Eric has a good plan, switching it and printing out a page or too of plain black.  Maybe every 3 months or so might be enough.

Wayne, I'm not so sure this is an issue and would welcome hearing actual experience of switching problems from lack of use. I've seen how that mechanism works in my 4900, probably similar in other models too; it's a little lever that moves over a very small distance to allow ink out of one channel or the other. I didn't see how it could dry out as long as one ink or the other flows through that component to the printhead.

[Wayne Fox]

anecdotal.  We have had several customer 3880's that were pretty old that suddenly developed issues described by Eric when the user tried some MK paper.  Also I think the dampers could be an issue. I don't know if it's a drying out issue or if it's a sediment issue.

Seems switching every few months isn't too big of a deal ... better safe the sorry?

[Farmer]

There's still an ink line from the MK to the switch.  If you never put ink through it and it just sits there, it will deteriorate (the ink) over an extended time.  Never ever changing it shouldn't be a problem, but if you rarely change it, then you expose the damper and head to ink that may have experienced pigment separation or perhaps even dried out - that would be bad. 

I agree with Wayne - if you intend to switch at all, then don't leave it for too long between switches.

[Mark D Segal]

That's a nice distinction. Thanks for bringing it to our attention Phil.

[Ferp]

anecdotal.  We have had several customer 3880's that were pretty old that suddenly developed issues described by Eric when the user tried some MK paper.  Also I think the dampers could be an issue. I don't know if it's a drying out issue or if it's a sediment issue.

Seems switching every few months isn't too big of a deal ... better safe the sorry?

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence of this issue in both the R3000 & 3880.  It's the one weakness in what are otherwise excellent printers.  One symptom is a K cartridge that mysteriously drains.  Another symptom is one or both K channels refusing to print after a K switch.  There's no hard evidence of what causes these, but there's strong anecdotal evidence that sedimentation around the switch from infrequent switching may be the cause in at least some cases.  It's entirely possible that some of these problem cases are just plain old bad luck and a faulty part, but there's too much of a pattern for that to explain all of them.  So I do exactly as Wayne and Eric suggest and do the switch in my 3880 at least once each three months.  My assumption is that the P600/800 are sufficiently similar to their predecessors in this regard for the same to apply.

If you never switch, then perhaps you can ignore the issue, but in that case be very careful not to get an accidental auto-switch, as a repair is close to uneconomic.

[Jeffrey Saldinger]

Thanks to you all for guidance on this.

It seems obvious now that with my predisposition to give workouts to the colored inks, an occasional workout switching the blacks is a good idea too.

As it happens, I have on hand some matte Canon paper (Matte Photo Paper MP-101) that I bought some time ago for my all-in-one home office printer.  I compared its specs with those of the Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Matte, and the two papers sound similar enough (cost, weight) to be safely interchangeable.

Is there any reason not to use that Canon paper for my “switching workouts” (I’d use the media type  “Ultra Premium Presentation Matte”)?

Jeffrey
jeffreysaldinger.com

[Arlen]

As Eric mentioned, you can use plain letter-size office paper for the "switching workouts", no matter which ink you are switching to. For example, you may have Epson Premium Luster selected in the driver, to force it to use Photo Black ink, but just put office paper in the printer instead.

[schertz]

I believe if you select plain paper as the media type, the printer is willing to use either of the black inks.

[Paul Roark]

FWIW, though the switching mechanism is different, I use an old Epson 4000 to print with dyes (Noritsu/Claria) and never use MK in it.  I use my generic base, clear fluid (formula public and sold by MIS associate [www.inksupply.com] [no connection to me]) in the MK position to keep the system working.  The clear fluid has no binder or pigments in it -- that is, nothing to clog the head or switching mechanism.  I also have used it when I want to "mothball" a printer for a long period.  It never clogs and does the job.  With the newer Epson printers, getting the empty carts needed is a limiting factor, though the wide format carts can be drained and rinsed.  I'm not sure there is any chip re-setter that will work with them, however.  Pigments that are never used have been a source of trouble in the past.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Ferp]

Paul's suggestion is a good one.  If you're committed to never using one K channel, or not using it for an very long time, then it's safest to hibernate just that channel using a neutral flush solution like IJM's Piezoflush or similar.  If you don't do this from new then you'd need to print enough black test images to get the flush to the head.  The problem with this approach for the P800 may be getting a reliable refillable cartridge for the flush.  Last I heard there were difficulties getting chips that work.

If you don't do this, then exercising a little-used K channel is simply a matter of making the switch, printing some pure black on plain paper, and switching back.  If you own a copy of QuadToneRIP, then you can use its calibration mode to print just that K channel, although printing a pure black image the usual way will probably be close enough.

[Jeffrey Saldinger]

This afternoon I made a print with the matte black on that Canon matte paper I mentioned earlier (Reply #10 above).  I created a print preset using Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Matte for the media type.  I’ll probably just keep doing it at some regular frequency (I’m guessing weekly).  From what everyone has said I think that should do it.

Thank you, everyone who contributed.  It is good to understand this extraordinary tool better than I did just 28 hours ago.

Jeffrey

[Farmer]

I don't think you need to switch weekly - that will consume a fair bit of ink and should be unnecessary.  Once a month should be plenty (plus whenever you actually need to use MK).

[FabienP]

I vaguely remember having read several years ago that a forced black ink switch would be automatically triggered in case one of the black inks remained unused after 6 months of printer usage. Sadly, I can't retrieve the source of that information. Could someone with access to a maintenance manual of an older Epson printer confirm this?

Maybe this still applies to the current generation of printers?

In any case, once every three months should be plenty enough. Also, I would not worry too much about not using the complete MK cartridge in 6 months as several users have reported consistent pigment density on paper even with three years old cartridges.

Cheers,

Fabien

PS: Congratulations to Jeffrey, you made the right choice by going with the SC-P800! I hope it was not too heavy for the initial installation and that you will not be moving it too often.

[Ferp]

I vaguely remember having read several years ago that a forced black ink switch would be automatically triggered in case one of the black inks remained unused after 6 months of printer usage. Sadly, I can't retrieve the source of that information. Could someone with access to a maintenance manual of an older Epson printer confirm this?

That post was here on Lula a few years back, but the discussion was inconclusive, and I've never seen another such report. 

In any case, once every three months should be plenty enough. Also, I would not worry too much about not using the complete MK cartridge in 6 months as several users have reported consistent pigment density on paper even with three years old cartridges.

Agree on all points.  Users of certain third party inks have to print and agitate and switch every few weeks, which is quite wasteful, there's no evidence that anything like that is necessary with OEM inks to prevent sedimentation and to keep the MK/PK switch clear.  Other than perhaps the switch, sedimentation seems to be a non-issue with OEM, unless perhaps you let a printer sit for years.

[Tom Montgomery]

I used to print with MK ink regularly when I first got the 4900. But then several years went by without switching inks, and when I tried to switch over to print a job on matte paper and did a nozzle check, no ink at all came out of the black channel. After many power cleanings interspersed with printing pages of grayscale images, I still got the cleaning error message (I forget the exact wording). Undoubtedly something to do with the switchover mechanism.  So I gave up and now I use the 4900 with PK ink only, and have had zero problems with any of the other inks over the years.