going pro - some advice please?

[ripgriffith]

Don't give up your day job!

[pearlstreet]

Rob C., your initial response to the op seemed odd considering what he asked but I go on the record for loving your work. Your photographs of women don't reduce the women to sexual objects but seem to recognize the "all" of a woman. (At least, that's how I see them.) They are really beautiful.

[Rob C]

Rob C., your initial response to the op seemed odd considering what he asked but I go on the record for loving your work. Your photographs of women don't reduce the women to sexual objects but seem to recognize the "all" of a woman. (At least, that's how I see them.) They are really beautiful.

Sharon, thank you. A lady's approval on that topic is rather special, but then, my entire life has been heavily influenced by women, and I'm not talking just photographs.

Perhaps I was just lucky: my mother was part Scot, part Italian, and her schooling was across various countries in Europe; she was multilingual, an avid reader of pretty much all that she could find, and crucially for me, she bought books on painters. Then, when I met my fifteen-year-old bride-to-be in school, I found the perfect balance between maternal and soulmate love. Perhaps I pulled off more scholastic gongs than my mother, even though my own schooling was even more widely distributed across the globe, but she was infinitely more intelligent than I, and my girlfriend could walk every physics, chemistry and maths exam they could throw at her. In fact, she coached me through technical college maths when I was doing my time in an engineering apprenticeship in which I had no interest. My aunt used to buy Vogue and Harper's Bazaar, and one day, I found that collection of publications; she lent me a Rollei, and I never wondered about what I wanted to do with my life after that.

The first year I hung out my shingle I had the good fortune to photograph Brigitte Bardot on a film set. She had been my fantasy lady from And God Created Woman about ten or so years earlier, when she displaced Ava Gardner (I have eclectic tastes!), and that early opportunity gave me a lot of traction in the other work I was doing. Then I met my one and only muse, a young model making one of her early go-sees. From the first few shots I knew she was magical, and it's no exaggeration to claim that, with her, I found the perfect foil to my own efforts to develop my graphic identity. She just had the instinct, the desire, and together we built up a wonderful portfolio that had almost nothing to do with the work we actually got. Then she married, kids... as with my wife, she was never replaced. All my women have been very, very bright.

So Sharon, it's no wonder I really do love some ladies very much. When you do, you just can't/won't make them look cheap: I always think pedestal. The surprising thing is that they take so much crap from men.

Thank you again for your very kind words!

Rob C

[RSL]

That's a great story, Rob.

[Rob C]

That's a great story, Rob.

Yes, they were/are great women, Russ.

I suppose that's really why I get a bit short sometimes when people imagine there's some sort of formula for making one's way in photography. There really isn't; there's just one great, common element: blind determination. Everyone I know trod a different route there.

Rob

[bcooter]

That's very kind of you, BC! I didn't know you also look at the non-pro side of the forum.

Post me the talent, and after the work's done, send in the crew to make a faux 'shooting of' so I don't have to do anything under pressure! I'm old, you know, pretty worn out; you wanna see my jeans - they're real.

;-)

Rob C

Rob,

Being born and raised in Texas I've know some real cowboys that make their living off the ranch.   Young, old, older, more than older.

The older ones will sit in their ranch house, look out over the land and say, "my riding days  (pause)  are over (long pause) I'm old", though they say it with sharp eyes that have a twinkle in them.

Then a few years go by and I'll bump into one of their grandkids on the street and ask "how's your granddaddy?  They'll respond he's on crutches with a busted leg.  I'll ask how'd it happen and they'll say, oh he was jumping that old mare over a fence line last week and got hung up in it, but he's still riding.

So my take is  I will bet dollars to donuts that if I put the right talent in front of your lens, on a day with beautiful cross light,  loaded up a Nikon F3, a 105,  some good film stock, you'd be jumping that fence line.   

It's amazing but when we pull 20 hour days, get beat to s*&t, hardly can get into the trucks, (this holds true for the 25 year old crew members), once the starting gun goes off, adrenaline triggers the body's fight-or-flight response and your on it.   

IMO

BC

[RSL]

I'd bet a lot of dollars on that too, BC.

[Rob C]

This is a terrific post. 12 salient points that apply to all professional photographers.

I would just add that regardless of ability or how hard you work it takes time to succeed. How long? Well I think around 5 - 10 years to reach a level of 'security'.

Paul

Paul, you must be a senior citizen too: f¡ve years is supposedly now an entire, fulfilling career! Forgotten fireworks hang in the dead file like flies on sticky paper; only a very few I ever knew personally made it much longer at any level worth having.

We used sometimes to throw around questions such as: is so-and-so established now, never really knowing what the hell established meant. We were generally generous: three years of working with some profile meant yep, the guy exists! Twenty years on, he had to be an accountant still to be there.

I think that part of the problem is that it's not really all about photographers themselves, but about how new people (possible clients) see them from within their own sphere of influence. Folks tend to mix with similar folks, and that makes a natural pool of common resources. I find it hard to imagine that a twenty-something would naturally turn to a fifty-something to do a shoot when he already knows a young guy in whom he has faith; yes, painful for the earlier generation, but a perfectly natural progression for all that, and the only way to ensure a steady continuity of talents. The old can choke the young, you know, and not just in photography.

BC. "So my take is  I will bet dollars to donuts that if I put the right talent in front of your lens, on a day with beautiful cross light,  loaded up a Nikon F3, a 105,  some good film stock, you'd be jumping that fence line."

No need for film - I could do it with glee with my digital Nikons, but only for shorter stretches at a time! Endurance has flown out the window (looking for my hair), even if Soul is willing. I would, however, need a mule to carry the bloody Gitzo! Don't tempt me too hard - I may push you into a corner where you have to pony up! ;-) Only kidding.

Actually, in my current mindset, I'd be more inclined to want to shoot in rainy weather in a city somewhere, not bikini/skin shots, but dreamy French/Scandinavian-looking creatures with large eyes, sad expressions, long straight hair and simple, beautifully expensive clothes. The French/Scand girls would probably, in truth, come from Birmingham, UK and be starving for their art, deep in the dream of their model agency.

Ah, and it's just another soft morning in Mallorca...

Thanks for the really happy passing moments, Cooter. Appreciated on many levels!

Rob

[Rob C]

Rob, I am 62 so well on my way.

On the topic of age I would say that it may be less of an issue for architectural photographers?  However I hire brilliant assistants / processors who bring energy, great skills and positivity to the job. Left to my own devices there are some days I would not get out of the car...

Paul

That means you made it to the car; look on the bright side!

I believe you might be right, though, and that it can't be painted as broadly as I might be suggesting. In a sensible world, age usually brings the benefits of experience as part of the package; whether that's always welcomed, though, is another matter, especially where some bright young thing wants to establish his/her handwriting without having to cope with the advice of somebody else...

Watching the Richard Avedon documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpIZ_S38A_0

he mentions walking away from his fashion life... you can almost taste the disillusion.

Of course, the man earned a fortune, so he could do that at the top. Albert Watson also stopped letting himself be classified as a fashion photographer, citing the distinctions between his 'studied' work and where the magazine market was going. I suppose that one could say there is a time when a natural shearing of the way just makes itself irresistible in a work relationship, away from client as much as genre.

In my own case, getting the commission was a huge part of the buzz, particularly if I knew that somebody else had been chasing the same thing. Motivation is a subject in its own right!

Rob

[Rob C]

If you think like this, it'll help you understand what it can be all about:

http://www.graphicine.com/sarah-moon-i-see-you/

Rob

[bcooter]

Rob, I luv ya man.  You have a great eye.

I met Avedon when he was much older than me, at industria NY. I was in the hallway finishing a smoke, he was in the hallway to clear his head with two assistants showing him polaroids of the editorial project for vogue.

We are about 12 ft. apart and he said hi, I said it's an honor but man when ya gonna quit and leave some room at the top?  I did this light hearted/joking and he smiled and said, something like we never quit, if your good.

The last part I didn't hear that well, then he went back to his studio, I went to mine.  Many years later he was in Texas shooting an editorial spread for the New Yorker of  soldiers that had fought in Iraq, felt dizzy, his producer, I believe Owen Wilson's mother, who produced his American Portrait series asked if he needed to go to the hospital and he said, I have the shot blocked I'll go when I've finished and then went down to the floor.  End of story and very sad.

I respect that.

I don't want to go peaceful into the night.  I want to go screaming, kicking, holding a camera and shooting something important.

I've always thought that my last words would be from lying in some mud puddle in SoHo, looking up at the assistants and say "make sure this gets online".

But IMO

BC

[marton]

Haven't read the entire thread, so if someone's already mentioned this, feel free to ignore.

Consider doing a degree in photography first. At your age It'll give you some 'weight' where getting work is concerned. Can't hurt to learn some in-depth on the use of flash, lighting etc. 

[Jim Pascoe]

Haven't read the entire thread, so if someone's already mentioned this, feel free to ignore.

Consider doing a degree in photography first. At your age It'll give you some 'weight' where getting work is concerned. Can't hurt to learn some in-depth on the use of flash, lighting etc.

I did a photography degree as a mature student between 1995 and 1998.  It did give me time to concentrate on photography, become a better photographer and I did indeed become a full-time photographer for the past 18 years.
However I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as a cost or time efficient way of becoming a professional photographer. 

Apart from a lot of dedication, I would say the best way is to choose the area of photography that you are most interested in and find existing photographers in that speciality (preferably not in your area). Ask if you can do some work with them - unpaid possibly to start with.  Pick only photographers who's work you would aspire to.  See how they work and deal with their clients.  That will give you a template to start out with and naturally you will develop your own style and way of working.  It worked for me anyway.  Photographers are a helpful lot in general - but don't expect the guy around the corner to welcome you in, tell you all his methods, only to have you set up next door.  I made that mistake too (helping somebody else).

It is my view that anyone with some talent and lot of hard work can make a living as a photographer.  It probably has to be a way of life though - not just a job.  Of course it all depends on how much money you want.  I don't know any photographers making lots of money - I certainly don't.  But it has funded my life, paid the mortgage and fed the children.  My car has 182,000 miles on the clock though.....

Jim

[BrownBear]

I am mindful of my age (42)....

That's the first thing that stuck me, but without regard for "age-ism." 

The more important follow-on question in our experience is "When and how well do you hope to retire?" 

It can be challenging enough to survive today on the income from your hard work, but can you build a great retirement as well? Assuming a retirement goal of around age 65, can you support yourself and build a comfortable retirement over the next 23 years?

We did so, and in fact retired well. But throughout our careers, the end point of retirement remained at the forefront of our planning and management.