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Author Topic: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless  (Read 14156 times)

Theodoros

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2016, 12:00:28 pm »

I have been around here now and then, so I have seen your comments before. Some of what you right is useful, but as often as not, IMO, you amount to being a bully. You could do better than this with your knowledge.

"IMO, one has to decide if his screen is his enlarger projection in a digital darkroom as to provide a media to judge the final look of the photo-graph or not... Although different opinions are respected, I'll prefer to stick with A.Adams opinion/lesson as described in his very first chapter in his very first book, where the process of visualization is described as the fundamental behind photo-graphy and then to the FACT that no two screens will show the same out of a file....

Other than that, I don't remember A.Gursky or Gudelka or Bresson, or R. Kappa ever making an exhibition on a screen (although I've seen some newcomers trying -unsuccessfully for their possible carrier- to do so), or will ever take web images seriously... Especially as the "product" can't be exhibited to its full detail (or it will be stolen) and its only visible to one (its creator) as a part of (before) the printing process.... As I said before, "opinions...." ...they are good for discussions, but then I hear clown-politicians having one and sadly people voting for them...."

Other than the above, if you have a different "opinion", comment and reply on the facts presented... anything else is (by definition) bulling (from your side)...  ;) ...obviously!

In addition, conversations can only develop with examples/reference presented... I haven't understand yet what is your reference against the FUNDAMENTAL meaning of the word "photo-graph"? ...is there any? (...other than your bulling attempt of course ...  ;))
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2016, 12:08:42 pm »


Other than the above, if you have a different "opinion", comment and reply on the facts presented... anything else is (by definition) bulling (from your side)...  ;) ...obviously!

In addition, conversations can only develop with examples/reference presented... I haven't understand yet what is your reference against the FUNDAMENTAL meaning of the word "photo-graph"? ...is there any? (...other than your bulling attempt of course ...  ;))

Unfortunately, this is not my first rodeo as per your comments. No offence, but many amount to bullying. A. Adams had no modern digital experience. Millions of us print to screen, look, examine, and share photos, etc. You know this. I am not going to bother with you any further. It is too bad because I agree with you about entrance pupils, etc., but that respect does not extend to just anything you want to say. Sorry.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:41:35 pm by Michael Erlewine »
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Theodoros

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2016, 12:17:19 pm »

Unfortunately, this is not my first rodeo as per your comments. No offence, but many amount to bullying. A. Adams had no modern digital experience. Millions of us print to screen, look, examine, and share photos, etc. You know this. I am not going to bother with you any further. It is too bad because I agree with you about entrance pupils, etc., but that respect does not extend to just anything you want say. Sorry.

I would please insist for you to answer what you are asked... as I (always) do...  :)

"In addition, conversations can only develop with examples/reference presented... I haven't understand yet what is your reference against the FUNDAMENTAL meaning of the word "photo-graph"? ...is there any?" 

...do you have a reference saying that a photo-graph is what is shown on your screen?  Do you argue that a "photo-graph" is only the printed thing on paper and that this is the defintion of it in every language on earth? I really don't see what you are trying to argue for...
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scyth

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2016, 12:57:42 pm »

Once we have large size 8K screens the situation will be different.

well, I, for example, always like to zoom images @ 100% to enjoy not only the whole picture but the selected parts of it @ 1:1.... and I do not really need 8K monitor for that (not even 4K) !
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scyth

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2016, 12:58:40 pm »

One that doesn't print, is by definition not doing or anything related to PHOTO-GRAPHY.... A photo-graph, can by definition only be the printed thing.
I see - so those who did slides were not photographers either, ok.
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scyth

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2016, 01:00:55 pm »

Opinions....
yours is that only genuine reflective media matters - anything remotely emissive / transmissive does not count  ;)
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siddhaarta

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2016, 01:13:53 pm »

Funny discussion, as always, off-topic ...

I wonder how does cinemato-graphy work. I assume this must be a sequence of prints, the movie visitor can view running around. LoL

« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 04:42:58 pm by siddhaarta »
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Theodoros

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2016, 01:25:32 pm »

I see - so those who did slides were not photographers either, ok.

I'm afraid friend, your logic in translating senses is too low... Anything can be a projection before it becomes a photo-graph... a negative, a raw image on a screen, a slide, a tiff image... whatever! Still, a photo-graph will exist only if you print it... If you don't, there won't be any photo-graph as to ever prove its existence as a photo-graph....

PS: And please stop putting nonsense of your mind creation as being other people saying...
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NancyP

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2016, 02:18:49 pm »

Chill, folks.
The real value of a format, and the camera to support that format, only becomes known after using the camera for a while. So Michael, I will be very interested in hearing about the Hassy once you have had a chance to work with it.

 I am happy with my 20 MP old-tech Canon 6D FF SLR  - it is "good enough" for my current uses, the practical downside being low weather resistance. I don't have any place to hang a really large print. Working with 50 MP files on the current computer would be ...s....l...o....w.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2016, 02:32:03 pm »

Hi,

I do that, too. I also do slide shows with zoom effects and I do also print. Mostly A2, but sometimes larger.

But, once you publish for the web the images are usually small. Full screen is often around 2-3 MP and how many images are published full screen?

Best regards
Erik


well, I, for example, always like to zoom images @ 100% to enjoy not only the whole picture but the selected parts of it @ 1:1.... and I do not really need 8K monitor for that (not even 4K) !
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Rob C

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2016, 03:08:38 pm »

I have been around here now and then, so I have seen your comments before. Some of what you right is useful, but as often as not, IMO, you amount to being a bully. You could do better than this with your knowledge.

Easy on, to be a bully requires a willing victim.

Rob

peterv

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2016, 03:28:16 pm »

Theo, why do you always have to quarrel, loosen up man!

You completely de-railed a promising and interesting thread that Erik started.

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ErikKaffehr

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2016, 03:31:06 pm »

This info from Zacuto may have a story to tell:

https://youtu.be/SJTrXONeEZk?list=PLC420A73089B58727

Best regards
Erik


Funny discussion, as always, of-topic ...

I wonder how does cinemato-graphy work. I assume this must be a sequence of prints, the movie visitor can view running around. LoL
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2016, 03:50:40 pm »

This is not the first time I have experienced this, which is why it is not worth coming to LULA very often. However, Eric posted a thread that I am interested in, as I am looking at both the X1D and the Fuji MF mirrorless cameras.

Then in the middle of this, Theodorus hijacks the thread and so on. This has happened before, same problem.

I just want to be able to come here, have a discussion, and leave it at that.

I don't need to be lectured, bullied, and have the topic changed, please.

Talking with other experienced photographers, same story, which is why some really good ones don't even bother to show up.  How about we get a chance to have a thread and stay on it?
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scyth

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2016, 03:52:22 pm »

Funny discussion, as always, of-topic ...

I wonder how does cinemato-graphy work. I assume this must be a sequence of prints, the movie visitor can view running around. LoL

good catch, but I am afraid that our son of Hellas will unleash himself on you next  ;D ...
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scyth

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2016, 04:03:06 pm »

But, once you publish for the web the images are usually small.
why ? I am the target audience of my own photos ;) - I is my hobby, I enjoy it myself and when I want somebody else /friends or relatives/ share the joy then I post full size and  never (C) or watermarked, as for the others - I am not going to see their prints in any case and if they post crippled images then I simply move on - why shall I waste my time looking on intentionally overdownsized images, unless the image was posted, for example, to illustrate some technical point in the topic ?
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2016, 04:33:17 pm »

Hi,

I generally try to post full size, but very few utilities really support full size images. I have my images mostly on SmugMug, mostly at full size, and on my own website, the later one often also having raws.

But, how often do you think folks are downloading an original size image? Very seldom I would believe.

I may add that I am not sure that an actual pixel view is he best way to visualise the grandeur of an image. In slide shows I sometime use liberal amounts of pan and zoom to focus different parts of an image, but I don't see that happening on static web pages.


Best regards
Erik

why ? I am the target audience of my own photos ;) - I is my hobby, I enjoy it myself and when I want somebody else /friends or relatives/ share the joy then I post full size and  never (C) or watermarked, as for the others - I am not going to see their prints in any case and if they post crippled images then I simply move on - why shall I waste my time looking on intentionally overdownsized images, unless the image was posted, for example, to illustrate some technical point in the topic ?
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Rob C

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2016, 04:02:47 am »

I think it's a mistake to post too large because the instant temptation is to move to the next image. There are few experiences online more annoying than having to scroll an image up/down or left/right. I almost always refuse to do it. Why? Because a big image doesn't make a mediocre image any the better, and quite often a smaller image hides our feet of clay quite well, and it's not until a year later when we blush in silence at some of the stuff we've paraded with such pride, that we realise the clay might even be melting.

Look, whenever I put up a fresh image in PS I reduce the size to about postcard. Then, I can get the overall sense of what I have or have not managed to catch. In fact, I edit at about the same image size I post here and on my website: image 600 - 650 pìxels wide, and overall, including my standard frame, 810 pìxels wide. That is handled by LuLa perfectly because it falls within its system limit which I think is 1000 pixels largest dimension. (Of course, the files I'm working in are not reduced, only the percentage viewed onscreen is down to postcard, and when I have to work close up I go to whatever size is comfortable for that operation.) Having to scan a too large image with the eye defeats it: you need to be able to get the thing at a glance.

Perhaps I'm mistakenly applying censure, but it strikes me folks who post too big for my monitor are just expanding their ego. Period. My monitor is a LaCie 319, and that's plenty big enough at reading distance.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2016, 04:11:15 am »

I think it's a mistake to post too large because the instant temptation is to move to the next image. There are few experiences online more annoying than having to scroll an image up/down or left/right. I almost always refuse to do it. Why? Because a big image doesn't make a mediocre image any the better, and quite often a smaller image hides our feet of clay quite well, and it's not until a year later when we blush in silence at some of the stuff we've paraded with such pride, that we realise the clay might even be melting.

Look, whenever I put up a fresh image in PS I reduce the size to about postcard. Then, I can get the overall sense of what I have or have not managed to catch. In fact, I edit at about the same image size I post here and on my website: image 600 - 650 pìxels wide, and overall, including my standard frame, 810 pìxels wide. That is handled by LuLa perfectly because it falls within its system limit which I think is 1000 pixels largest dimension. (Of course, the files I'm working in are not reduced, only the percentage viewed onscreen is down to postcard, and when I have to work close up I go to whatever size is comfortable for that operation.) Having to scan a too large image with the eye defeats it: you need to be able to get the thing at a glance.

Perhaps I'm mistakenly applying censure, but it strikes me folks who post too big for my monitor are just expanding their ego. Period. My monitor is a LaCie 319, and that's plenty big enough at reading distance.
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kers

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Re: A small reflection on 44x33 mirrorless
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2016, 05:38:30 am »

This is not the first time I have experienced this, which is why it is not worth coming to LULA very often. However, Eric posted a thread that I am interested in, as I am looking at both the X1D and the Fuji MF mirrorless cameras.

Then in the middle of this, Theodorus hijacks the thread and so on. This has happened before, same problem.

I just want to be able to come here, have a discussion, and leave it at that.

I don't need to be lectured, bullied, and have the topic changed, please.

Talking with other experienced photographers, same story, which is why some really good ones don't even bother to show up.  How about we get a chance to have a thread and stay on it?


Hello Michael,
i can understand what you say, but this post, like mine now, is also of-topic.

The best thing to do is to ignore it and stay on topic.
The moderator will have to take care of the problem...

This will be my last post that will be of-topic.

cheers PK
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