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Author Topic: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors  (Read 15083 times)

Rory

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Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« on: September 26, 2016, 04:45:12 pm »

Okay, I'm an optimist.  I upgraded from 2015.6 to 2015.7 in Lightroom.  I was having issues with 2015.6 where the image would block up into random chunks when the graphics card was enabled in the develop module.  Worked just fine before that.  And yes, I am using the latest nVidia driver on a Win 10 PC.  The chunking goes away as soon as I mouse over the develop panel.  No issue with the graphic card turned off in performance.  I had hoped this would be fixed with the update.  Nope.

Picked four shots from a pano I took today and tried to do a photo merge panorama.  Crashed Lr.  Hmmm, this hasn't happened before.  Reopened Lr and tried again - same crash.  Sigh.  Aw well, I'll just edit in Ps as layers.  Nothing happens.  Oh, right, I forgot about the existing bug where this won't work unless Ps is already open.  Open Ps.  In Lr edit as layers.  Make Pano.  Pano won't stitch.  Doesn't seem to like my vertical pano.

Not giving up.  Export Pano images as TIFF.  Drag into Micorsoft ICE.  Bingo, pano in moments.  Nice to find something that works.

This is getting so tiresome that I can't muster the energy to report it to Adobe.  Just thought I would get it off my chest with a mini rant here.

I hope everyone else's day is going a little better.  :*)
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Paul2660

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2016, 05:41:52 pm »

I feel your pain. Adobe needs to pull back on improvements and just attempt to make a more stable core.

Paul C
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2016, 06:43:22 pm »

Rory, I think you should report it to Adobe regardless of your frustration just in case they either have some suggestions or to help insure they know there is (yet another) problem they need to fix.

Paul: I think the core is stable and works just fine; it's when they implement upgrades and new features, some of which are very cool indeed, that they run into problems, probably due to inadequate QR/QC for whatever reason.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rory

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2016, 06:50:12 pm »

Rory, I think you should report it to Adobe regardless of your frustration just in case they either have some suggestions or to help insure they know there is (yet another) problem they need to fix.

I appreciate your stamina Mark.  I'm tired of being a beta tester and reporting stuff that usually falls into a black hole.  If it gets fixed, great.  If not I'll soldier on and continue to look at alternatives.  I still have lots of love for Lr.  Unfortunately the hate side is growing.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2016, 06:57:53 pm »

Thanks Rory, but it's not a matter of stamina; it's a matter of attempting to enhance our success using this otherwise fine application. Personally, I'm not keen to get into alternatives, nor shall I be an early adopter of Adobe's upgrades. The Golden Rule for me now is to wait a good three months until the early adopters do Adobe's QC/QR for them and whatever bugs they find (which means reporting them) get fixed. Nothing vital gets lost waiting it out. 
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rory

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 07:09:47 pm »

I agree with you Mark, but when every release creates as many problems as it solves how do you decide when to update?  That's when paying rent for a product that seems to be going downhill gets a tad frustrating.  It just doesn't feel like Adobe is upholding their end of the "bargain".
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 08:10:09 pm »

Rory, I think the fact is that by the time they are ready to issue a new release, it isn't to solve previous operating problems - those are dealt with long beforehand; it is to introduce support for new cameras, new security concerns and new features; more often than not those new features are very worthwhile. For example, the new Transform Panel is something I have been using every day and it is excellent. They also do stuff to improve efficiency under the hood and that is also welcome. The main problem is the self-evident short-circuiting of QC/QR, which is unfortunate, because as an application grows in complexity and sophistication, and the needs and computing environments of users expand, one has to expect scope for glitches. There was a time when Adobe had a very extensive external testing apparatus in place, especially in the very early days of the application. I think they need to seriously consider re-introducing this approach, which will be of interest to the early adopters who either don't mind or even enjoy being beta testers with its attendant risks; this would be in the interest of both the company and the rest of the clientele who just want things that work properly when the commercial release happens. Of course it uses supervisory/management resources and perhaps they are reluctant to spend that money.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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ButchM

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2016, 08:55:31 pm »

Nothing vital gets lost waiting it out.

Except your monthly stipends to Adobe continue regardless if you update or not. Those payments continue regardless if the updates function as intended or not. At least if you get a bad cup of Mocha chino at Starbucks, you can walk back to the counter and and they will pour you a fresh cup made the right way.

Of course I understand that software development is much more complicated ... nor do I expect Adobe to be perfect ... but they certainly could put forth a bit more effort to hold themselves to a much higher standard. I thought there would be an increase in complacency once they moved to the subscription model ... but I thought it would take much longer to get there.

One of the selling points for CC was that subscribers would not have to wait for updates, they would receive them as they were available ... but what is that bonus worth if almost every update either doesn't function as intended or the implementation of same breaks longstanding traditional functionality? ... the discovery of which comes very late in the process when if they applied just a bit more effort in their testing they could avoid much of these problems. I recall Adobe said one of the great benefits for everyone involved was that they would no longer have to rush out updates based upon a number on the calendar ... but take  whatever time was necessary to get it right before release ... What happened to that sentiment? Was it just empty rhetoric to entice users to subscribe? Now that they have subscribed, doe that attitude or desire no longer exist?

I look at it this way. I paid for v1 the day it was released and each and every subsequent new version upgrade since then (including v6). I have also been a CC subscriber for nearly two years now and I am working 2-3 version updates back because the current version(s) of Lightroom don't work properly for my workflow. What are we paying for? Even considering the monthly fee is small, some would say insignificant ... however, over the span of years, that total does indeed add up. Sure, Adobe is fairly diligent about adding RAW support for new cameras and lens profiles as they are possible ... but what good is all that effort if you can't install the new support because they broke something else in the schema ... it is indeed a 'Comedy of Errors' ... only problem is, it is fast becoming much less humorous.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2016, 11:02:00 pm »

Yes, the monthly stipends continue because we continue to use the application; stop using it and stop paying. That's a separate matter from whether the up-dating process is diligent enough to justify remaining a customer, and there are alternatives. Speaking personally, I would much prefer to see Adobe improve its act than to start undertaking a massive redirection of workflows that by and large suit me well; how long I shall remain in that mode remains to be seen - it depends on future experience. But each customer will have their own view of that and no doubt Adobe needs to understand very objectively where they stand now and where they want to be five years, ten years from now.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rory

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2016, 11:25:23 pm »

Yes, the monthly stipends continue because we continue to use the application; stop using it and stop paying. That's a separate matter from whether the up-dating process is diligent enough to justify remaining a customer, and there are alternatives.

No, it is not a separate issue - they are tightly linked.  If that was the case then we should have been happy to rent the software from the start with no changes - and who would have done that when you already owned the right in perpetuity to use it.  The argument was Adobe needed regular income in order to be able to work on the less glamorous things like QC, performance and bug fixes, while rolling out new features as they were ready, not with fanfare and a rush to meet marketing requirements.  I'm not feeling the love.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 11:43:27 pm »

Let's be clear - they have introduced new features - very good ones - with each update. So that part of the subscription proposition has been respected. The main issue, to judge it from a user perspective without any inside information, is slippage in QC/QA. And if this is the problem, they need to improve on this one way or another. Whether we buy software on a perpetual plan or a rental plan, we want a product that comes off the press as trouble-free as humanly possible.
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ButchM

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 11:49:28 pm »

Yes, the monthly stipends continue because we continue to use the application; stop using it and stop paying. That's a separate matter from whether the up-dating process is diligent enough to justify remaining a customer, and there are alternatives. Speaking personally, I would much prefer to see Adobe improve its act than to start undertaking a massive redirection of workflows that by and large suit me well; how long I shall remain in that mode remains to be seen - it depends on future experience. But each customer will have their own view of that and no doubt Adobe needs to understand very objectively where they stand now and where they want to be five years, ten years from now.

No, the payments is not a separate issue. Unless of course you are stating that you are willing to pay Adobe, from here to eternity, simply for time of service with the apps in there current state and you are willing to do so without any further updates ... ever. That wasn't part of the deal. The deal was that Adobe add support for new camera and lenses as well well as ancillary new features and enhancements as they are able. As I explained, I've already compensated Adobe for days gone by ... It's another issue to pay in advance for updates that don't work.

I would love to be a very supportive and content customer of Adobe products, as I once was. I too, do not totally embrace the thought of moving to another solution for my daily tasks. However, I refuse to become a mind-numbed robot sending a monthly payment in perpetuity to a business that simply lacks the resolve to do a better job. It's amazing that Adobe has never once failed to deduct their monthly payment from my account ... yet they have failed multiple times in their updates just in this calendar year. Seems they can apply proper attention to detail where they choose, when it is to their advantage.
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Rory

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 11:50:19 pm »

Well, I think the problems are larger than QC but I think we are basically on the same page Mark.
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ButchM

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 11:52:39 pm »

Let's be clear - they have introduced new features - very good ones - with each update.

What good is a new feature if if applying the associated update breaks existing traditional workflows?

What good is ordering a steak in a 4 star restaurant ... but you can't eat it because the chef didn't prepare it properly?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2016, 12:00:33 am »

No, the payments is not a separate issue. Unless of course you are stating that you are willing to pay Adobe, from here to eternity, simply for time of service with the apps in there current state and you are willing to do so without any further updates ... ever. That wasn't part of the deal. The deal was that Adobe add support for new camera and lenses as well well as ancillary new features and enhancements as they are able. As I explained, I've already compensated Adobe for days gone by ... It's another issue to pay in advance for updates that don't work.

I would love to be a very supportive and content customer of Adobe products, as I once was. I too, do not totally embrace the thought of moving to another solution for my daily tasks. However, I refuse to become a mind-numbed robot sending a monthly payment in perpetuity to a business that simply lacks the resolve to do a better job. It's amazing that Adobe has never once failed to deduct their monthly payment from my account ... yet they have failed multiple times in their updates just in this calendar year. Seems they can apply proper attention to detail where they choose, when it is to their advantage.

They are respecting their end of the deal to issue new features, and some very good ones, with each upgrade.

None of the flaws they have allowed into recent releases have vitiated the whole application, but they have affected the functionality of at least one specific function each time, as I have documented and published on this website for one of the more important ones to those of us who print.

Monthly payments are on auto-pilot so I don't expect that to break (not to say it can't, but much less likely). Up-dating an application is not on auto-pilot; it's a hugely complicated multi-faceted undertaking involving lots of people and procedures. So we can't expect perfection. That said, and no-one has contested this yet, I believe there is scope for implementing QC/QA procedures that could possibly have averted some of the recent debacles.

I think it's important to engage with Adobe on them identifying precisely where the management problems lie and what we as consumers expect by way of precisely targeted managerial improvement, rather than tarring the whole scheme; that doesn't help fix anything.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rory

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2016, 12:04:16 am »

If you feel that way then you should be an early adopter/beta tester Mark instead of relying on others.  I've been reporting to Adobe since the first beta and I'm tired.  Your turn.
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ButchM

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2016, 12:07:35 am »



I think it's important to engage with Adobe on them identifying precisely where the management problems lie and what we as consumers expect by way of precisely targeted managerial improvement, rather than tarring the whole scheme; that doesn't help fix anything.

You can lead a horse to water ... but you can't make them check the water quality before they drink if they have no desire to do so.

Users have been pointing these problems out for some time and there has been zero change in results. It has just been more of the same. There has been some low level attempts at appeasement, but no real effort to actually make a difference.
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ButchM

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2016, 12:10:53 am »

They are respecting their end of the deal to issue new features, and some very good ones, with each upgrade.


WHAT GOOD ARE NEW FEATURES IF THE UPDATE BREAKS EXISTING WORKFLOWS NECESSITATING ROLLING BACK TO A PREVIOUS VERSION?

How wonderful is a new feature ... even a 'good one' ... if you can't use the update it was delivered in?
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Rory

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2016, 12:35:04 am »

Let's be clear - they have introduced new features - very good ones - with each update.

This got me thinking.  If you ignore the features that are from the ACR team, just what features have been added to Lr in the last 17 months?  What has the Lr team been doing?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Lightroom 2015.7 Comedy of Errors
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2016, 07:57:49 am »

If you feel that way then you should be an early adopter/beta tester Mark instead of relying on others.  I've been reporting to Adobe since the first beta and I'm tired.  Your turn.

You seem to forget - I've had my turn: Whither Adobe, and I'm not giving up.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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