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Author Topic: Fuji Infrared???  (Read 5045 times)

uintaangler

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Fuji Infrared???
« on: September 23, 2016, 07:48:41 pm »

I have just decided to make my initial plunge into IR by sending a camera to LifePixel for conversion and I am finding out that it isn't all that easy for me as a Nikon shooter.
According to LifePixel I will run into all kinds of White Balance programs using pretty much any of the later full frame Nikon DSLR's ( D800, D810, etc ) and on top of that they told me the Nikon 24-70 2.8, the lens that pretty much lives on my camera is a terrible IR performer

I have been hearing lots of good things about the newer Fuji cameras so I popped in here and found this thread

*** What would you recommend as the right Fuji camera to purchase strictly for IR conversion ( I would probably go for the type of conversion that will allow me to shoot both color IR and B&W IR ) 
*** Is there a fixed lens zoom camera with a great sensor that would work for landscapes and old, deserted buildings 
*** If the answer to question two is NO, what lenses would you recommend 
*** Budget: between $750 - $1,500[/li][/list]


Thanks!
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rdonson

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2016, 08:04:23 am »

Fuji created a version of the X-T1 specifically for IR. Take a look. Not sure it meets your needs but worth looking at.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/fujifilm/slrs/fujifilm_xt1_ir
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Regards,
Ron

uintaangler

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2016, 09:58:03 am »

Ron,
Thanks for the response.
Do you have any experience with this camera?
Sure seems like it WOULD meet my needs  -  am I missing something, a negative I am not considering?
Bob
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2016, 03:36:52 pm »

There's a lot more too it than what Lifepixel has told you or at last than what you have written.  The white balance issue is primarily a concern if you are going to do false color IR.   If your goal is Black and White IR only, get their 830nm conversion, set your picture style to B&W and don't worry about white balance, just set it to the lowest custom value available.  In post get rid of any remaining color.  This usually gets rid of most visible hot spots too that you might get from that lens or others with hot spots.  There are other ways around the hot spotting even in color IR by shooting an LCC profile of the lens at various focal lengths and shutter speeds, Capture One is the easiest software to use to apply the LCC profile to the image file because it is already setup to do that for technical cameras using digital backs.  Also check out Maxmax, personally I have been a bit happier with their turn around time and wilingess to do non-standard things.

Also note that it is Adobe software that can't white balance Nikon cameras.  Nikon's Capture NXD can as can Capture One.  Adobe just doesn't have enough adjustment range built into it.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 02:24:41 am by E.J. Peiker »
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rdonson

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2016, 08:23:28 pm »

Bob,  I have no experience with the Fuji IR camera.  Everytime I think I might convert one of my old Canon DSLRs I find myself thinking that money would be better spent on a new Fuji lens.  ;D

Here's what Fuji has to say about the IR camera and some specs inline with what EJ is talking about.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/press/news/display_news?newsID=880825
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Regards,
Ron

donbga

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 09:13:01 am »

There's a lot more too it than what Lifepixel has told you or at last than what you have written.  The white balance issue is primarily a concern if you are going to do false color IR.   If your goal is Black and White IR only, get their 830nm conversion, set your picture style to B&W and don't worry about white balance, just set it to the lowest custom value available.  In post get rid of any remaining color.  This usually gets rid of most visible hot spots too that you might get from that lens or others with hot spots.  There are other ways around the hot spotting even in color IR by shooting an LCC profile of the lens at various focal lengths and shutter speeds, Capture One is the easiest software to use to apply the LCC profile to the image file because it is already setup to do that for technical cameras using digital backs.  Also check out Maxmax, personally I have been a bit happier with their turn around time and wilingess to do non-standard things.

Also note that it is Adobe software that can't white balance Nikon cameras.  Nikon's Capture NXD can as can Capture One.  Adobe just doesn't have enough adjustment range built into it.

Great information. Thanks,

Don Bryant
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uintaangler

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 11:20:29 am »

Also check out Maxmax, personally I have been a bit happier with their turn around time and wilingess to do non-standard things.

EJ,
Considering that I am an IR novice, what do you mean by "non-standard things"?
Thanks
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2016, 04:56:33 am »

Fast turn around time, special wavelength filter requests, modifying cameras that they previously haven't done, etc...
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pluton

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2016, 03:14:27 am »

The old Fuji XE-1 or XE-2 might make IR conversion platforms, and are cheap used, especially the XE-1.  Like $200-250 used.
I looked at the special IR XT-1 on B&H, and they have this whole rigamarole about how you have to prove you are in law enforcement or forensics in order to buy the camera.  They must not want to sell many.
???
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Herbc

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2016, 09:53:46 am »

I have had a Canon 50D, Nikon D800, and Sony A7R converted by Lifepixel to the 830nm level.  I use Nik Silver EFX for some b/w conversions, which is a great deal now that Google owns it and gives it away. I never had any issues with Lifepixel.  Not to worry about white balance-it becomes a non issue in post. 8)
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David S

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2016, 09:44:14 am »

There's a lot more too it than what Lifepixel has told you or at last than what you have written.  The white balance issue is primarily a concern if you are going to do false color IR.   If your goal is Black and White IR only, get their 830nm conversion, set your picture style to B&W and don't worry about white balance, just set it to the lowest custom value available.  In post get rid of any remaining color.  This usually gets rid of most visible hot spots too that you might get from that lens or others with hot spots.  There are other ways around the hot spotting even in color IR by shooting an LCC profile of the lens at various focal lengths and shutter speeds, Capture One is the easiest software to use to apply the LCC profile to the image file because it is already setup to do that for technical cameras using digital backs.  Also check out Maxmax, personally I have been a bit happier with their turn around time and wilingess to do non-standard things.

Also note that it is Adobe software that can't white balance Nikon cameras.  Nikon's Capture NXD can as can Capture One.  Adobe just doesn't have enough adjustment range built into it.

I am considering converting my old XE-1 and taking B&W only. Is the 830 choice best or would 720 offer more choices with option filters - and hence more cost.

Dave S
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2016, 07:58:43 pm »

I am considering converting my old XE-1 and taking B&W only. Is the 830 choice best or would 720 offer more choices with option filters - and hence more cost.

Dave S
720 gives you some false color capability but if that is something you are interested in I would go for something down in the 600's.  For B&W only, 830 will give you more contrast than 720 will but you can always add contrast.
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ChrisHubbard

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2016, 02:12:17 am »

Hello, this is the first time I’ve posted on this forum although I’ve enjoyed reading the articles on LuLa for several years.

I recently had a Fuji X-E1 converted to infrared and I am very pleased with the resiults. This is my first experience with digital IR, although I did do some work with colour IR film years ago. I went for the 720 nm filter as I’m mainly interest in mono as the end product. The output (raw) is pretty much all shades of brown although there seems to be traces of blue in some painted surfaces, but essentially the output in monochromatic. I’ve not yet gone deeply into post- processing possibilities, but as a quick fix I find the Hi Contrast B&W preset in Lightroom does quite a good job followed by exposure/contrast adjustments.

As for Fuji lenses: my ‘standard’ 18-55 suffers from a hot spot (as reported also on other web sites) but I’ve had good results with the 16-55 f2.8 and the 18-135. I’ve also had good results fom the Samyang 8mm fisheye. Not yet had a chance to get out with Fuji primes to see how these perform.
The conversion was carried out here in UK by Protech Photographic, I thought their service and advice was very good; turnround time about 10 days.

Chris
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2016, 08:03:43 am »

Chris, if you are a Capture One user, simply create an LCC profile at each focal length in steps of about 10mm and then apply the LCC profile closest to the focal length that you used and the hot spot will be essentially gone.
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Pavel

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Re: Fuji Infrared???
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2016, 02:55:35 pm »

I'd like to add my perspective/experience to this topic.  I have a Fuji X-2 converted to IR, the super-color 590nm conversion. I also bought an Olympus OM-5 mkii, planning to convert it as well, seeking to expand my lens choices, and to use the one feature that I keep my Olympus system for; the focus stacking.  After conversations with both life pixel and KolariVision, I think I've changed my mind and will sell the camera, instead of converting it. Not to besmirch Olympus offerings but apparently the lenses that I'm interested in, the wides, don't perform quite up to the same standards as several other brands, and thus my decision (which is still tentative btw)

I am interested in black and white only, I don't really like false color, except in the case of some very subtle false color and the right subject.  But that is my preference. I also don't want to bother fiddling around with filters for both regular shooting, IR cutoffs and UV. I'd probably have to buy at least three sizes, and those suckers are expensive!  So the Fuji X-T1 is a system I'd never want for the above reasons plus the heavy price. I too have found that they want to limit to law enforcement, though I don't get it, why should that be, when one can simply order a full spectrum conversion by Lifepixel or by KolariVision. What's the secrecy and restriction here? But I've got cameras for every-day shooting, why need to have one full spectrum conversion and have to slap a filter to get it to shoot the regular way? Not for me, though I guess it's nice to have a lot of choices.

I have to admit that I think I wish I had gone for a stronger cut-off. Perhaps not the 830 but likely the 720. I wanted the control, and more color lets you achieve that with a lot of post processing, but the odd thing (for me) is that I find it problematic in the strangest way.  I can't "see" at all the merit, or the lack of - until after I've processed every single file.  That sucks.  I get some great results but there is a lot of guessing in Camera, by looking at the viewfinder and not having any sort of clue, Thats because the scene renders so completely differently in IR and is so colored, even with a custom white ballance, that I just don't have enough experience.  I feel like I'm shooting blind.

Now if you set my camera to black and white - then I'm in business, I can kind  visualize quite well and set up my shots with much more likelihood of getting into the ballpark of what I'm after. That of course beggars the question, why bother with the super color.  I may send it in and go for the 720. That looks near the end results, the white ballance is not as critical (thought it should always be set) and I think I'll be more productive.  It's nice that the folks at Lifepixel will convert a camera back to original state for half price, should one be unhappy. I have to check if that applies to changing the filter to a stronger one? Hope so.

I respectfully disagree with the stated idea, that one can just go to Capture One and build a custom profile.  The hot spot obliterates details and focus, the same way that strong lens flare does. You can't fix it.  That is why I wanted to broaden my horizons out and convert one of my Olympuses.

On the Fuji side I've tested the 14, 23 F1.4, 23 F2.0, the 35 F 2.0, the 90 F 2.0 and the 55-200 zoom, personally and all perform fabulously up to F 11, with no hotspots that intrude. Well the 55-200 may require F 8 for someone with very hight standards, but that is still a very useful aperture.  I've tested my 16, 18-55 and they are completely unsuitable whereas the 56 is useable up to F2.0. I feel.

I've also tested, with a converter the Nikon 105 micro VR and it is very very good, while the 60 micro is not useable except wide open. Horrid hotspot. A couple of the AIS lenses are good as far as hotspots are concerned. Specifically the 24 f 2.8, the 80 f 2.0 and the 135 f 2.8 AIS lenses.  But they are soft, to the point of being strangely dream like (to put it nicely :) ) wide open and don't really get all that good at any aperture, with the exception of the 135 which sharpens up by F 5.6 through to F 11.  So there is a lot of room to tinker and experiment, and get different looks. I find it a lot of fun.

If I figure out how to post photos here, and get organized a bit, perhaps I can post examples, if there is any demand for them.

If one is looking for something fresh and new, something to explore and learn with, I think IR is just perfect and a small investment when weighed against the fun of it. One thing that is great about it, is that once the morning light has changed and it's time to go home or wait for the golden hour at the end of the day, the IR camera comes out and is then, in the middle of the day, in it's "golden five hours". That sure stretched the shooting day out, nicely.


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