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Author Topic: Profoto Pro 10  (Read 6365 times)

FelixWu

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2017, 10:22:23 AM »

So my question was how ghosting could occur if two separate heads have different t0.1-times but still fast enough to perfectly freeze water splashes, not what t0.1 is. In my mind if both heads perfectly freeze water splashes, does it really matter if the t0.1-times differ between the two?
It doesn't matter if you shoot a walking person at 1/500s or 1/8000s...As long as your are faster than the action speed, you will freeze the action with your camera shutter...same applies to flash duration.
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Brent Daniels

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2017, 12:41:42 AM »

Profoto, which I love, has never released the t0.1 duration for Pro-10 ,and I have specifically emailed them  and asked for it with no response. That tells me something. I shoot Profoto for everything, except for ultra high speed where Broncolor Scoros is the choice.

With both Profoto Pro-10 and Broncolor Scoros the flash duration and power are connected. More power = longer flash duration. Low power = short flash duration. The Broncolor advantage is that you can dial in the flash duration you desire for an image. However with Broncolor there is a colour temp difference between full power slow duration and the min power fast flash duration. My guess is about 7000 to 4500 degrees Kelvin. Profoto is much more even in colour temperature through the power range.

How is this important? If you have a Broncolor lit set with heads at different power levels you are more likely to have different colour balance levels through your set. Basically with Broncolor you need to dial all packs to the same flash duration to maintain even color temp and then play within the power range for that speed range. Profoto color temp is very stable from full to low power so there is less effect. 

Film was much more forgiving of these color temp changes through a set, or smoother, but it shows more in digital. To some the difference mean something. To others it is no big deal. But it is there.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2017, 05:54:23 AM »

However with Broncolor there is a colour temp difference between full power slow duration and the min power fast flash duration. My guess is about 7000 to 4500 degrees Kelvin. Profoto is much more even in colour temperature through the power range.

Interesting, without having used the Scoro I was under the impression based on Broncolor marketing materials that the color temp stability accross the power range was a strong point of their offering.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!

JoeKitchen

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2017, 01:53:45 PM »

profoto never released any official info on t0.1! but thankfully with the latest light meter it could be tested!

The unofficial spec according to unofficial test however....pro10's shortest flash duration at t0.1 = 1/21000s +/-. lol

Quote
So my question was how ghosting could occur if two separate heads have different t0.1-times but still fast enough to perfectly freeze water splashes, not what t0.1 is. In my mind if both heads perfectly freeze water splashes, does it really matter if the t0.1-times differ between the two?

Although this is nice, it still does not matter unless you can sync all of the heads to be firing at the same exact speed, otherwise you still get ghosting. 

You're never really freezing motion, you are just excepting a certain amount of motion blur will happen, but hopefully not (too) noticeable.  The problem occurs when an object is moving fast enough where the amount of motion blur caused by two different light sources don't perfectly overlap.  This is when you get ghosting and it starts to look bad.  For people, you're most likely never going to notice it; for a splash, it will become very noticeable. 

Just for fun, before syncing the packs, I did a recent test with the Scoros where one pack was firing at 1/7500 and the other at 1/8000 (at t0.1).  That is a difference of 1/120,000 second and I still got ghosting. 

Mind you I was working with a 60 MP capture, damn sharp technical camera lenses and clear water, but it happened. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 02:08:55 PM by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2017, 01:56:31 PM »

Interesting, without having used the Scoro I was under the impression based on Broncolor marketing materials that the color temp stability accross the power range was a strong point of their offering.

Cheers,
Bernard

So long as you set the pack to pick the best possible flash duration for a given power, the color will be consistent.  It is when you start to alter the speeds to sync the heads that you get off color. 

Here's an outtake example.  Before syncing the speeds, the color was consistent through out.  Afterwards, the front went a pale blueish green and the background pink.  It is really noticeable in this image since everything is white; in others it may not be noticeable. 

Anyway, overall easy to fix, except for where the splash and pour in the final overlapped the background and foreground. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 02:16:41 PM by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

UlfKrentz

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2017, 02:14:23 PM »

Interesting, without having used the Scoro I was under the impression based on Broncolor marketing materials that the color temp stability accross the power range was a strong point of their offering.

Cheers,
Bernard

It absolutely is, obviously you have to understand how it all plays together to get the best out of it. Without altering the flash duration you already get a very short flash duration with the Scoro packs. Key is the cut off of the flash tail of the light with the IGBT circuit which always takes place when not using all stored energy and leads to a sharper image. Careful setup of the lamps to keep the power down or the use of twin heads where you can´t is also of great value. If you need to get further and keep the color between the heads it´s best to alter the color temp towards blue which also results in shorter flash duration while keeping all heads in the same color range. Alternately if you want to keep it simple you may just use the "speed" button (which does exactly that without letting you have entire control). Just setting flash duration to min is not what you want to do, it´s for extreme applications. In this setting you may get indeed a significant shift towards blue when power is dialed down to a very low setting. BTW, all the same applies to the grafit A series which could also be set to a color shift in 50deg steps resulting in shorter flash duration by using the broncolor FCC. There are a lot of extra functions deep down in the menus which makes the broncolor packs incredible versatile. I don´t want to bash the Profoto system which would be a close second choice for me but depending on the job if I rent and cannot get broncolor packs I might really feel kind of limited. Hope this helps a bit ;-) Cheers, Ulf

Brent Daniels

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2017, 03:35:32 PM »

I just checked the data sheet for the latest Scoros 3200 pack and the flash duration at full power is 1/132 sec t0.1. That is the #1 reason I bought Profoto vs Broncolor for my day to day flash
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2017, 04:20:52 PM »

I just checked the data sheet for the latest Scoros 3200 pack and the flash duration at full power is 1/132 sec t0.1. That is the #1 reason I bought Profoto vs Broncolor for my day to day flash

Yes sure, as Profoto uses higher voltage (1000V vs. 700V) it definitely has the shorter flash duration at maximum power. That said I have used maximum power from my broncolor packs maybe once or twice in the last 20 years, just being lazy to not switch to a twin head or over to my Bläsing packs, because if I really need power (they run at 2500Volts and use metall paper capacitors, even the small 2500J one has more light output than a 3200J electrolytic capacitor pack) these are the way to go. Once you start to dial the brons down the flash duration shortens in favor for broncolor as they simply switch off and cut the flash tail. So about 99.9% of the time I use my packs.

We´re on the edge of technology these days, there have been packs with higher voltage, tubes with three electrodes or closed ring shape for shorter flash duration, all of which have their pros and cons. The way I use my broncolor system it provides the best color consistency and an advanced crisp flash duration in combination with minimum wear of capacitors and flash tubes. It simply is as good as it gets. I´d always try to avoid to torture my tubes with maximum power. (3200Ws is easily 500.000Watts for the time of the flash duration) I know how those units work, based on that knowledge I made my choice. Both manufacturers sell excellent equipment and I can easily see the handling with rotary knobs and the uncluttered design in favor for Profoto. Cheers!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 04:24:57 PM by UlfKrentz »
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