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Author Topic: Profoto Pro 10  (Read 6358 times)

Geocolor

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Profoto Pro 10
« on: September 20, 2016, 12:31:36 PM »

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 07:54:47 PM »

No work about pricing and availability yet I guess?

In fact there is, price is around 15,000 US$... a bit above my budget...

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 02:28:39 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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Geocolor

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2016, 09:13:23 AM »

Pre-order price in Europe, € 12.200,43
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 06:06:09 PM »

I was also surprised to find out that the pro heads cost the same as the new D2 1000 TTL, which is weired any way you look at it. Profoto needs to rethink the coherence of their price list IMHO.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 10:29:23 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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Brent Daniels

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2016, 05:07:22 PM »

Not sure what 1/80 000th of a sec at t0.5 translates to at t0.1, but at that speed it is only 2.4 ws of light power. Ummm not bloody much.

If it puts out about 1000 ws of light at 1/8000 of a sec without changing colour temp that would be great as Broncolor shifts quite cold when at high speeds.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2016, 07:24:18 PM »

Not sure what 1/80 000th of a sec at t0.5 translates to at t0.1, but at that speed it is only 2.4 ws of light power. Ummm not bloody much.

If it puts out about 1000 ws of light at 1/8000 of a sec without changing colour temp that would be great as Broncolor shifts quite cold when at high speeds.

Practically speaking, it should at least be faster than 1/2000s at full power with good color stability to be able to tap into the potential of the new Hassy leaf shutters.

I haven't been able to find a curve showing the flash duration as a function of power output unfortunately.

Cheers,
Bernard
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2016, 06:20:10 AM »

Not sure what 1/80 000th of a sec at t0.5 translates to at t0.1, but at that speed it is only 2.4 ws of light power. Ummm not bloody much.

If it puts out about 1000 ws of light at 1/8000 of a sec without changing colour temp that would be great as Broncolor shifts quite cold when at high speeds.

To get shorter flash duration you need to use twin heads or flash tubes with three electrodes or a closed ring shape. The later draw a lot of amps which leads to faster aging of both, flash packs and tubes, another way is to use very high voltage like the big ones ones from Bläsing (2000Volts). Those cannot be electronically controlled though, no free lunch. We need to accept it is as good as it gets, we´ve reached the design limits a couple of years ago, nothing really groundbreaking new since broncolor´s Grafit.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2016, 12:03:12 PM »

Since I am now fooling around with splash photography, I looked at the specs on these when they first came out about a month ago.  Initially, they are impressive, however the Broncolo Scoros are still the much better system. 

With splashes, not only do you need very fast flash bursts, but you also need all of those bursts to be the same exact speed. 

If the Pro 10s allowed the user to alter the speed of the flash independent of the power (as you can with the Scoros), giving you the ability to not only freeze time but produce a dynamic and nuanced image without the possibility of ghosting, these would be a game changer. 

Unfortunately Profoto did not go far enough with the system. 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 07:18:14 PM by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2016, 06:57:33 PM »

Hi Joe,

If I may ask, what makes you think that, at a given power, the P10 will generate flashes of inconsistent duration?

Are you inferring from the inability to control explicitely flash duration that it will vary even if power is kept constant?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2016, 07:15:56 PM »

I am not talking about a particular power setting varying in its flash duration from one shot to another; I would expect that to be rather consistent. 

What I mean is if you are setting up a shot using more then one head, which is usually the case, you need to have the flashes from all heads exactly the same duration to freeze time properly, without ghosting. 

Now producing an image with multiple heads, all at the same power, would be rather boring, but if you are using any Profoto gear that is what you would need to do in order to ensure the flashes are the same speed. 

With the Scoros however, you can craft a dynamic image with varying ratios of power and then adjust the speed of each flash without altering the power to ensure all flashes are the same speed.  If you are using only one pack, there is even an automatic setting that does this for you. 

Now color is effected somewhat and you are limited with how much you can adjust the speed as you go higher in power, but canceling out ghosting for a little extra time in post or using a twin head is well worth it. 
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Joe Kitchen
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 07:52:59 AM »

Hi Joe,

If I may ask, what makes you think that, at a given power, the P10 will generate flashes of inconsistent duration?

Are you inferring from the inability to control explicitely flash duration that it will vary even if power is kept constant?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, Profoto and broncolor differ from the entire design process. While broncolor cuts off the flash via an IGBT circuit (the flash is switched off during a bright intensity) Profoto uses a selected amount of the capacitors at a higher voltage. Both ways lead to a short flash duration, in favor for Profoto at high power level (due to the higher voltage), in favor for broncolor at lower to medium power levels. Some packs divide the flash energy output by triggering the lower setting channel a bit later, so the other output gets more power from the same capacitor block which can lead to weird effects when capturing motion. Also cutting off the flash power leads to a razor-sharp edge where conventional packs will produce a smear. I hope I could explain this somehow understandable, sorry for my basic english skills.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 09:16:22 AM »

I understand Joe, thanks for the explanation.

Cheers,
Bernard
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FelixWu

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2016, 02:13:58 AM »

Practically speaking, it should at least be faster than 1/2000s at full power with good color stability to be able to tap into the potential of the new Hassy leaf shutters.

I haven't been able to find a curve showing the flash duration as a function of power output unfortunately.

Cheers,
Bernard
In a 4week old response from Profoto on youtube they said they were going to publish the T0.1 specs shortly....4 weeks ago. lol
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 02:09:28 AM »

In a 4week old response from Profoto on youtube they said they were going to publish the T0.1 specs shortly....4 weeks ago. lol

Does someone know if Profoto has shared this information?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Nick Walker

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2017, 03:53:14 AM »

Its about time all flash manufacturers quoted t0.1

DrakeJ

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2017, 02:37:04 PM »

I am not talking about a particular power setting varying in its flash duration from one shot to another; I would expect that to be rather consistent. 

What I mean is if you are setting up a shot using more then one head, which is usually the case, you need to have the flashes from all heads exactly the same duration to freeze time properly, without ghosting. 

Now producing an image with multiple heads, all at the same power, would be rather boring, but if you are using any Profoto gear that is what you would need to do in order to ensure the flashes are the same speed. 

With the Scoros however, you can craft a dynamic image with varying ratios of power and then adjust the speed of each flash without altering the power to ensure all flashes are the same speed.  If you are using only one pack, there is even an automatic setting that does this for you. 

Now color is effected somewhat and you are limited with how much you can adjust the speed as you go higher in power, but canceling out ghosting for a little extra time in post or using a twin head is well worth it.

I'm curious as I haven't had any experience in this, but even if you have different flash durations on different heads, if the slowest is good enough to freeze splashing water, how could you get ghosting? What t0.1-times are we talking about?

FelixWu

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 08:13:51 AM »

Does someone know if Profoto has shared this information?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard
profoto never released any official info on t0.1! but thankfully with the latest light meter it could be tested!

The unofficial spec according to unofficial test however....pro10's shortest flash duration at t0.1 = 1/21000s +/-. lol
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2017, 10:49:56 PM »

I'm curious as I haven't had any experience in this, but even if you have different flash durations on different heads, if the slowest is good enough to freeze splashing water, how could you get ghosting? What t0.1-times are we talking about?

t0.1 is the time it takes for 90% of the flash energy to be released, while t0.5 is the time it takes for 50% of the energy to be released.

Even with a short t0.5, depending on the technological implementation, you can have light being emited at significant power for much longer, which results is unsharp water.

This is where the implementation of Broncolor, at least at medium and low power outputs, is superior because they cut light emission sharply after its peak, meaning that the difference btwn t0.1 and t0.5 (again at medium to low power) is much less which results in more effective actual water motion freezing.

At higher powers, the cutting still occurs at the end, but the ramp up of power seems to be slower than Profoto and the t0.1 and t0.5 are also significantly different and longer in absolute terms. At least this is what I gathered from various inputs from people in the know, including Joe.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 11:11:12 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2017, 11:10:01 PM »

The unofficial spec according to unofficial test however....pro10's shortest flash duration at t0.1 = 1/21000s +/-. lol

How about at 25, 50 and 100% power?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard
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DrakeJ

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Re: Profoto Pro 10
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2017, 03:25:57 PM »

t0.1 is the time it takes for 90% of the flash energy to be released, while t0.5 is the time it takes for 50% of the energy to be released.

Even with a short t0.5, depending on the technological implementation, you can have light being emited at significant power for much longer, which results is unsharp water.

This is where the implementation of Broncolor, at least at medium and low power outputs, is superior because they cut light emission sharply after its peak, meaning that the difference btwn t0.1 and t0.5 (again at medium to low power) is much less which results in more effective actual water motion freezing.

At higher powers, the cutting still occurs at the end, but the ramp up of power seems to be slower than Profoto and the t0.1 and t0.5 are also significantly different and longer in absolute terms. At least this is what I gathered from various inputs from people in the know, including Joe.

Cheers,
Bernard

So my question was how ghosting could occur if two separate heads have different t0.1-times but still fast enough to perfectly freeze water splashes, not what t0.1 is. In my mind if both heads perfectly freeze water splashes, does it really matter if the t0.1-times differ between the two?
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