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Author Topic: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP  (Read 7880 times)

eronald

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2016, 04:45:17 am »

BJL,

 I assume someone who is good with numbers would tell you that sensor yields can be approximated by a base Poisson statistic with a defect probability rho per infinitesimal unit surface,  p(defect)= rho*ds, yadda yadda so .... there should be a lot of cast-off defects lying around the Sony stockyard. Certainly many more than the number of good sensor shipped out - assuming provision has been made to partition the chip so the defect is not terminal :)

Edmund

Edmund: that's an intriguing idea: get "square sensors" relatively cheap with no new sensor design or production commitments, by using partially defective 4:3 sensors where the fatal defects are only in the one quarter of the sensor that is not used.

Bernard: I was responding to the proposal in most of this thread that this camera would use the existing 100MP 4:3 shaped Sony sensor, but always cropping to a square from it.

As to why there would not instead be a dedicated square sensor; for the same reasons that have been rehashed in innumerable threads about "why not a square format digital camera?": not nearly enough demand.  And no, posts from many dozens of square format enthusiasts is not nearly sufficient evidence of commercially adequate demand.  Instead, the total absence of square format sensors since the 36x36mm Kodak CCDs – even while the square format Rollei-based system was still around – is one big hint of low demand; the earlier clear move away from square formats back in the film era (when of course "square format chemical sensors" were readily available) is another.


By the way, the "ground glass VF" option illustrated suggests that this CAD fantasy is meant to have a reflex mirror; if so, X1D lenses would not be usable.  But maybe that top-down VF is just part of the retro styling (optional LCD on top) for what is meant to be mirrorless.
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Rob C

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2016, 11:35:20 am »


As to why there would not instead be a dedicated square sensor; for the same reasons that have been rehashed in innumerable threads about "why not a square format digital camera?": not nearly enough demand.  And no, posts from many dozens of square format enthusiasts is not nearly sufficient evidence of commercially adequate demand. Instead, the total absence of square format sensors since the 36x36mm Kodak CCDs – even while the square format Rollei-based system was still around – is one big hint of low demand; the earlier clear move away from square formats back in the film era (when of course "square format chemical sensors" were readily available) is another.


Yes, that's an opìnion, but not a definitive one.

A 36mm x 36mm sensor isn't the same concept as a full 6x6 format negative which, if I remember, was in the 50-something mm squ. zone.

Using a 36mm squ. sensor would be delightful in a different, smaller than 500C body type. It could probably work very well.

That the Rollei didn't use a 36 squ. sensor isn't surprising - what would it have achieved - still too small to satisfy diehard 6x6 fans, and would just turn existing lenses into longer ones, which had that been the photographer's choice, he'd have bought already.

At least, that's how I see it at the moment.

Moving to 6x7 was something I did, first Bronica and then Pentax, and almost instantly regretted both times. My original Swedish Squares beat Japanese Rectangles any day - for me.

Rob C

landscapephoto

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2016, 03:35:17 pm »

The V1D presented at Photokina is just a mockup, it is not functional. There is no sensor in it. On this picture, one would see that the screens are glued-on pictures.
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BJL

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A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP — 3D printed for now
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2016, 04:54:46 pm »

The V1D presented at Photokina is just a mockup, it is not functional. There is no sensor in it. On this picture, one would see that the screens are glued-on pictures.
Indeed, it looks like one of those plastic toy prop computers, stereos, and such used in furniture store displays. Nostalgically, it seems that for illustrating early design proposals, the fine art of carving models from balsa wood has been replaced by 3D printing.

In my most cynical mood, I am not sure if Hasselblad has even decided on fiddly details like whether to use an OVF or an EVF.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2016, 07:01:41 pm »

I would be very surprising if they were to go back to an OVF.

Cheers,
Bernard

landscapephoto

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2016, 02:47:32 am »

At the risk of repeating myself: it is not a camera, it is only a mockup. It is a way to generate buzz, to show that Hasselblad has not forgotten about its "heritage", etc... Perry Oosting understood that the brand value lies in the connection to the iconic V series and is simply playing that card.
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Rob C

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2016, 06:02:52 am »

At the risk of repeating myself: it is not a camera, it is only a mockup. It is a way to generate buzz, to show that Hasselblad has not forgotten about its "heritage", etc... Perry Oosting understood that the brand value lies in the connection to the iconic V series and is simply playing that card.

Exactly! And it didn't become iconic by accident, which is something some forget: it fulfilled a huge need and made work for countless photographers feel less like, well, work. And man, did it deliver!

At the 'right' price, it would excite a lot of people into buying. But, what's a 'right' price beyond the generally affordable? For me, I think something around the 3000 pounds makes a price-point attractive to many different types of photographer. I think MF simply has to compete with the FF cameras for the same customers to become much more widely acceptable, especially now, with all camera sales apparently dropping off whichever cliff they find themselves approaching.

Put simply, I think the days of format justifying huge price band differentiation is passing fast.

Rob

BJL

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2016, 08:30:00 am »

@landscapephoto, I agree that this mockup gives no sign that Hasselblad has done any real design work on this, but let's play along and imagine what might be possible. The 75MP figure strongly suggests the same pixel size as Sony's latest MF sensor, just cut down to a 40mm square. It seems inconceivable that they would go backwards to lower resolution (bigger photo sites) so 40mm seems a safe maximum. Then the diagonal is no more than about 56mm, so close enough to the 55mm diagonal of the G1X, and the same lenses could be used.
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Rob C

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2016, 08:38:54 am »

Rob, wouldn't that be just lovely? But, as the saying goes, dream on!


What else is there?

;-)

Rob

landscapephoto

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2016, 03:45:02 pm »

@landscapephoto, I agree that this mockup gives no sign that Hasselblad has done any real design work on this, but let's play along and imagine what might be possible. The 75MP figure strongly suggests the same pixel size as Sony's latest MF sensor, just cut down to a 40mm square. It seems inconceivable that they would go backwards to lower resolution (bigger photo sites) so 40mm seems a safe maximum. Then the diagonal is no more than about 56mm, so close enough to the 55mm diagonal of the G1X, and the same lenses could be used.

Well... yes. Perry Oosting said as much. In the V1D specs, they used a 100 mpix sensor cropped to square and found out that the output was exactly 75 mpix, for 75 years of Hasselblad. And indeed it uses the G1X lenses, that what is mounted on the mockup on the photo.

If the price of the 100 mpix sensor gets down, they may even build the camera. But it will be more of a fashion statement than anything else.
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BJL

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2016, 07:49:23 pm »

Well... yes. Perry Oosting said as much. In the V1D specs, they used a 100 mpix sensor cropped to square and found out that the output was exactly 75 mpix, for 75 years of Hasselblad. And indeed it uses the G1X lenses, that what is mounted on the mockup on the photo.

If the price of the 100 mpix sensor gets down, they may even build the camera. But it will be more of a fashion statement than anything else.
I hadn't noticed that the lenses are real (there "spartan" styling makes them look like fakes too) and are for the X1D (I got those letters garbled). So much for the debate over whether it will have a mirror.

But with no mirror, there is a double affectation here: not just square sensor, but the deep cube-shaped body, with all that extra depth pointless if there is not a mirror inside.  And of course there is the faux film winding knob . . .
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NickT

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2016, 01:00:11 am »

I agree that this mockup gives no sign that Hasselblad has done any real design work on this,

Billy did you see the renders?Looks like a bit of thought has gone into it...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2016, 01:27:11 am »

But with no mirror, there is a double affectation here: not just square sensor, but the deep cube-shaped body, with all that extra depth pointless if there is not a mirror inside.  And of course there is the faux film winding knob . . .

Yes, I was wondering the same. The design is nice, but how is the space used in the absence of a mirror is indeed a good question.

I guess that the answer would be for batteries, etc... which would be a solution similar to that retained by Fuji since they put the battery between the sensor and the screen to reduce heating.

The faux film windering knob could be used as a soft control for whatever function is currently active.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rob C

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Re: That's what I call a nice evolution! A square Hasselblad V1D with 75 MP
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2016, 02:55:45 pm »

Hey, it's simply beautiful!

No idea what the thing stuck into the 'winding' hole does/would do, but for a grip, it's not gonna work: it would have be held by a plate screwed into the base, not obstructing the fingers right in the middle.

Good luck, 'blad, go for it!

Rob c
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