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Author Topic: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1  (Read 6866 times)

Paul2660

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DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« on: September 16, 2016, 09:39:31 am »

I realize there is not much focus in the K1 on this site but still a good read.

https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Pentax-K-1-sensor-review-Full-frame-marvel

It's too bad they did not test with pixel shift as there would more than likely been a new number one.

They also have the scores for the Canon 5d MKiv posted.

Paul C
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2016, 10:23:53 am »

Hi Paul,

I guess that the K1 may be less in focus than some others, but it is probably a quiet interesting camera. It is a pity the sensor shift capability is not supported by mainstream raw converters. That may change if more vendors use the technology.

The DR reported by DxO is pretty outstanding.

Best regards
Erik

I realize there is not much focus in the K1 on this site but still a good read.

https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Pentax-K-1-sensor-review-Full-frame-marvel

It's too bad they did not test with pixel shift as there would more than likely been a new number one.

They also have the scores for the Canon 5d MKiv posted.

Paul C
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Quentin

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2016, 12:13:13 pm »

Just to offer my point of view - best camera currently made.  On almost every level, it is outstanding.  Pity more photographers don't realise what they are missing when they pass it by.
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shadowblade

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 12:16:56 pm »

Just to offer my point of view - best camera currently made.  On almost every level, it is outstanding.  Pity more photographers don't realise what they are missing when they pass it by.

Lens selection.

Without a top-class 16-35/24-70/70-200 trio, a 14-24 or 11-24-class UWA, a sharp 100-400 or equivalent, tilt-shifts and primes in the Zeiss Otus or Sigma Art 50/1.4 class, it's just not very interesting.
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skierd

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2016, 01:33:10 am »

You mean like the DFA 15-30, 24-70, DFA* 70-200, DFA 150-450, the FA limited's (31 f1.8, 43 f1.9, and 77 f1.8), and the DA*55 f1.4?  If you don't mind using older lenses there are some great FA* primes and tele-zooms too. 
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shadowblade

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2016, 02:21:16 am »

You mean like the DFA 15-30, 24-70, DFA* 70-200, DFA 150-450, the FA limited's (31 f1.8, 43 f1.9, and 77 f1.8), and the DA*55 f1.4?  If you don't mind using older lenses there are some great FA* primes and tele-zooms too.

The newer lenses are basically revamped Tamron lenses with the stabilisation ripped out (Pentax uses IBIS) and a better casing and higher price tag slapped on. Tamron optics all around. Functional, but not great. I've heard there are AF issues as well. Also, minimal third-party support, and no prospect of using adapted lenses, due to the long flange distance.

The old lenses just don't hold up to 36MP.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2016, 02:40:07 am »

Hi Quentin and Paul,

Thanks for passing on the info! It is good info, from guys who have experience with lot of stuff.

Would be interesting to hear more about the lenses.

Best regards
Erik

Just to offer my point of view - best camera currently made.  On almost every level, it is outstanding.  Pity more photographers don't realise what they are missing when they pass it by.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2016, 03:28:52 am »

The K1 is clearly a great option if you can find a lens matching your applications.

It is in a position awfully similar to that of the a99 II. Great body with some unique abilities but system leaving a lot to be desired.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hulyss

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2016, 07:03:15 am »

Just to offer my point of view - best camera currently made.  On almost every level, it is outstanding.  Pity more photographers don't realise what they are missing when they pass it by.

Quentin, have you thought about acquiring the SMC Pentax-FA* 85mm F1.4 [IF] ? It's a bit rare but legendary. And yes it resolve the 36 MP sensor (as well as a Nikon 50 f1.2 AIS resolve the d810 sensor).
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Paul2660

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 07:54:31 am »

Can't speak for Quentin, but it's basically a myth, that some like to play in regards to older Pentax glass, not holding up to a modern 36 mp sensor.  Older Pentax glass is just like older Canon or Nikon glass some work better than others.  Try a 77mm 1.8 some time, amazing lens and a great carry lens due to weight and size.

As for the myth about current lenses, like 15-30, 70-200 150-450, again too bad that people feel the need to downplay these optics because they are re-worked Tamron lenses.  I guess Tamron has gotten ALOT better.  I can easily state, the Nikon 14-24/Pentax 15-30 are so close it's a hard to call,  same with the 70-200.  The Nikon 200-500 is still the best telezoom I have used, and the 150-450 is again very close.  It might be that the newer Canon lenses are just superior to all other glass on the market, as I don't use Canon anymore, but I have plenty of experience with older versions of their 16-35, 70-200, 100-400 etc.  Can't say any of these are "superior".  I won't even get into the issue of existing Dynamic range and shadow noise from Canon.

It's a fact that the focal flange distance issue is a problem for many who don't want to switch and still use existing Nikon or Canon lenses, thus the A7rII has done very well.

But I guess I found:

Pixel shift, articulating LCD, better user interface, Astrotracer, Built in GPS, better high ISO, Built in Wifi, totally weather resistance for lenses and camera just to name a few things worth making the switch.  The articulating LCD was really enough for me.  I am tired of camera companies not adding this feature to a modern DSLR as just being to use a camera at waist level makes things so much easier, not to mention it just makes thing easier, period. As you grow old, you will also find that bending down to look at a LCD on a ground level camera is just not that much fun.

Now with the latest firmware of 1.3 EFC is coming as in the D810, and it might also be a full electronic shutter as this is used during pixel shift currently.

It's also too bad that DxO did not use Pixel shift in their testing as there is no doubt that the K1 would have taken the top score for 35mm cameras.  The added resolution is no joke or myth, it's real and can easily be used outdoors even in mild wind.  Pixel shift is real multishot and defeats the Bayer pattern interpolation, allows you to have a huge amount of resolution and takes much cleaner overall images.  I have to give Pentax huge Kudos for working this out. I wish that Adobe would have spent more than 5 minutes are their raw conversion of pixel shift files.  Based on the conversions I have seen from the Pentax software and Silkypix and Iridient, it's quite clear that Adobe left a lot on the table (Pentax should not have allowed this).  With Phase One, not sure if they ever will support the Pixel shift files.  They won't make any statement yes or no but so far only support the normal raw.   I have asked them several times, but they have been moot, so I figure the support is not coming.  DxO is supposed to support the pixel shift file in the near future and have made a statement to that effect.

I agree that the Pentax support structure at least here in the US is weak and that is unfortunate.  The repair process of having to use a 3rd part (Precision Camera) is not a great idea either.  Ricoh should address this issue sooner than later but I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Tech support in the US, is very weak, and I am still not sure if the folks on the other end of the phone even work for Ricoh.   But I have also had my fair share of problems with Canon and Nikon in regards to repair issues, but their tech support both web based and phone based are superior.

Paul C
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Quentin

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2016, 12:41:39 pm »

Quentin, have you thought about acquiring the SMC Pentax-FA* 85mm F1.4 [IF] ? It's a bit rare but legendary. And yes it resolve the 36 MP sensor (as well as a Nikon 50 f1.2 AIS resolve the d810 sensor).

I have it  8). But I prefer the excellent 77mm F/1.8 Limited, short and so much smaller than the alternatives.  Paul is spot on in his assessment.

I'm pretty well covered with the lenses I now have.  Sure, more choice would be good for new adopters and Sigma, having already developed a K mount option with the 35mm F1.4, could easily offer K mount options for other lenses.  That would be good, but I'm ok with what I have.  Currrently, that is as follows: 50mm F/2.8 macro, 100mm F/2.8 Macro WR, 15-30mm F/2.8 (based on the Tamron, but modified by Pentax), Sigma 35mm F/1.4, 85mm FA* F/1.4, 77mm F1.8 Limited, 24-70mm F/2.8.  All Pentax save the Sigma 35 F1.4

And don't get me started on Pixel Shift (multi shot)! It's the reason I bought a K1 in the first place.  With the right subject, it is a revelation. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 12:55:43 pm by Quentin »
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Sean H

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u
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2016, 01:26:44 pm »

Hi Quentin, a year or so ago you posted about the Sony A7rII and the pictures you took with it. You seemed content at the time. However, in a subsequent post you said somewhere that you preferred the colour in the  files from the Pentax. Can you comment a bit more about what you didn't like about the files from the A7rII and why the you prefer the colour in the files from the Pentax? Thanks,

Sean
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Quentin

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Re: u
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2016, 02:17:39 pm »

Hi Quentin, a year or so ago you posted about the Sony A7rII and the pictures you took with it. You seemed content at the time. However, in a subsequent post you said somewhere that you preferred the colour in the  files from the Pentax. Can you comment a bit more about what you didn't like about the files from the A7rII and why the you prefer the colour in the files from the Pentax? Thanks,

Sean

More organic.  I like the A7rII, or at least I thought I did, but the Pentax K1 clicked with me from the moment I purchased it. 







Less post processing needed, just more natural.  Some shots above from my garden this year with the K1 (I used to run a botanical library, believe it or not).  First time in ages I felt inspired to get down and dirty among the flowers!

« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 02:21:27 pm by Quentin »
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Sean H

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2016, 05:52:02 pm »

Hi Quentin, wow - impressive photos. Thanks for sharing.

Sean
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Yashika

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2016, 06:20:39 pm »

Can't speak for Quentin, but it's basically a myth, that some like to play in regards to older Pentax glass, not holding up to a modern 36 mp sensor.  Older Pentax glass is just like older Canon or Nikon glass some work better than others.  Try a 77mm 1.8 some time, amazing lens and a great carry lens due to weight and size.

As for the myth about current lenses, like 15-30, 70-200 150-450, again too bad that people feel the need to downplay these optics because they are re-worked Tamron lenses.  I guess Tamron has gotten ALOT better.  I can easily state, the Nikon 14-24/Pentax 15-30 are so close it's a hard to call,  same with the 70-200.  The Nikon 200-500 is still the best telezoom I have used, and the 150-450 is again very close.  It might be that the newer Canon lenses are just superior to all other glass on the market, as I don't use Canon anymore, but I have plenty of experience with older versions of their 16-35, 70-200, 100-400 etc.  Can't say any of these are "superior".  I won't even get into the issue of existing Dynamic range and shadow noise from Canon.

It's a fact that the focal flange distance issue is a problem for many who don't want to switch and still use existing Nikon or Canon lenses, thus the A7rII has done very well.

But I guess I found:

Pixel shift, articulating LCD, better user interface, Astrotracer, Built in GPS, better high ISO, Built in Wifi, totally weather resistance for lenses and camera just to name a few things worth making the switch.  The articulating LCD was really enough for me.  I am tired of camera companies not adding this feature to a modern DSLR as just being to use a camera at waist level makes things so much easier, not to mention it just makes thing easier, period. As you grow old, you will also find that bending down to look at a LCD on a ground level camera is just not that much fun.

Now with the latest firmware of 1.3 EFC is coming as in the D810, and it might also be a full electronic shutter as this is used during pixel shift currently.

It's also too bad that DxO did not use Pixel shift in their testing as there is no doubt that the K1 would have taken the top score for 35mm cameras.  The added resolution is no joke or myth, it's real and can easily be used outdoors even in mild wind.  Pixel shift is real multishot and defeats the Bayer pattern interpolation, allows you to have a huge amount of resolution and takes much cleaner overall images.  I have to give Pentax huge Kudos for working this out. I wish that Adobe would have spent more than 5 minutes are their raw conversion of pixel shift files.  Based on the conversions I have seen from the Pentax software and Silkypix and Iridient, it's quite clear that Adobe left a lot on the table (Pentax should not have allowed this).  With Phase One, not sure if they ever will support the Pixel shift files.  They won't make any statement yes or no but so far only support the normal raw.   I have asked them several times, but they have been moot, so I figure the support is not coming.  DxO is supposed to support the pixel shift file in the near future and have made a statement to that effect.

I agree that the Pentax support structure at least here in the US is weak and that is unfortunate.  The repair process of having to use a 3rd part (Precision Camera) is not a great idea either.  Ricoh should address this issue sooner than later but I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Tech support in the US, is very weak, and I am still not sure if the folks on the other end of the phone even work for Ricoh.   But I have also had my fair share of problems with Canon and Nikon in regards to repair issues, but their tech support both web based and phone based are superior.

Paul C

Thank you for this most excellent summary.
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Yashika

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Re: u
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2016, 06:21:57 pm »

More organic.  I like the A7rII, or at least I thought I did, but the Pentax K1 clicked with me from the moment I purchased it.

Less post processing needed, just more natural.  Some shots above from my garden this year with the K1 (I used to run a botanical library, believe it or not).  First time in ages I felt inspired to get down and dirty among the flowers!


Beautiful sir.
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Quentin

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2016, 02:30:45 am »

Thanks, guys, for the kind comments  :)
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Hulyss

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2016, 07:36:42 am »

First time in ages I felt inspired to get down and dirty among the flowers!

I'll pay some large amount of money to see that by myself ! :)
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GrahamBy

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2016, 02:30:49 pm »

The old lenses just don't hold up to 36MP.

A 15 year old, first generation Sigma 70-200/2.8, wide open on a K3. That's only 24MPx, but on an APC sensor it has a pixel density equal to 54MPx full frame. I really wonder what people do with all this sharpness they apparently need.
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Telecaster

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Re: DxO scores are in for the Pentax K1
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2016, 03:18:00 pm »

I've found with my Sony that I really like the look of a gentle lens in front of a high-res sensor. My Pentax A-series 28/50/100mm set hits this particular sweet spot. The 31 & 77mm Ltds are also super, and sharper & contrastier too if you prefer more of that.

-Dave-
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