P6000 vs P7000?

[Garnick]

Due to certain circumstances beyond my control I’ll be moving my printing business to my home come January 2017.  For the past 6+ years the Epson SP9900 has been my workhorse and has done a yeoman job in the process.  However, due to the somewhat smaller space at home I will be downsizing to either the P6000 or P7000.  Before purchasing the 9900 I had been working with two 7600s, one for PK and the other MK.  It took a considerable amount of time for me to decide to purchase the 9900 with the additional Green and Orange inks, since I wasn’t sure they would produce a print which would exhibit a noticeable difference over the printer version without those two inks.  Since I still had the 7600 in operation when I took possession of the 9900, I did several tests using the prescribed downloaded image files, to determine whether or not I had made the correct decision concerning the two additional inks.  I must admit that the difference, if it did indeed exist, was very difficult to detect in the images I was printing.  Now of course I am facing the same conundrum once again.  Do I buy the P6000 or the P7000, which now has the Violet ink as well.  From what I have been able to determine on the Epson site, the main reasoning behind the additional three inks is to accommodate the Pantone colours as closely as possible.  That reasoning was of course applied to the 9900 as well 

And now to my request of the good folks on this forum.  I would like to receive some opinions on this matter from those of you who are presently working with either or both of these two printers(P6000 & P7000).  Of course the P6000 is somewhat more cost effective, but to what point?  In other words, is the difference in overall print quality between the two printers enough to rationalize the extra cost?  I know there will be differing opinions on this “issue”, but each and every reply will be greatly appreciated and taken into account.

Thank you all in advance,

Gary

[DeanChriss]

...
Do I buy the P6000 or the P7000, which now has the Violet ink as well.
...

This may help eliminate one of the three printer choices. The P7000 comes in a standard and commercial version. The commercial version substitutes violet ink for LLK leaving only two black inks (PK or MK and LK). You can't get violet and LLK in one ink set.

Epson marketing literature says "Also, the Standard Edition utilizes a Light Light Black ink that allows for finer, smoother gradations between light and dark areas in your print." I would assume that would be especially true of black and white prints, but would also apply to color. The Commercial Edition literature talks more about Pantone color matching capabilities. Between P7000 standard and commercial I picked the Standard version for that reason. The P6000 ink set is the same as the P7000 Standard Edition minus O and G, making the P6000/P7000 (Std) decision similar to the previous 7890/7900 decision. The P7000 in the U.S. is priced at $2600 and the P6000 at $2145. Printing speed is essentially the same, so the issue is really price versus gamut and whether the gamut difference translates into a visible photographic print difference. I wish I could provide a good answer for the last. I think that in some cases it does, but without a side by side comparison no one would ever know.

P7000 Standard ink set...: C, LC, VM, VLM, Y, LK, LLK, O, G, PK/MK
P7000 Commercial ink set: C, LC, VM, VLM, Y, LK, V, O, G, PK/MK
P6000 ink set................: C, LC, VM, VLM, Y, LK, LLK, PK/MK

Good luck with your decision!

[Garnick]

This may help eliminate one of the three printer choices. The P7000 comes in a standard and commercial version. The commercial version substitutes violet ink for LLK leaving only two black inks (PK or MK and LK). You can't get violet and LLK in one ink set.

Epson marketing literature says "Also, the Standard Edition utilizes a Light Light Black ink that allows for finer, smoother gradations between light and dark areas in your print." I would assume that would be especially true of black and white prints, but would also apply to color. The Commercial Edition literature talks more about Pantone color matching capabilities. Between P7000 standard and commercial I picked the Standard version for that reason. The P6000 ink set is the same as the P7000 Standard Edition minus O and G, making the P6000/P7000 (Std) decision similar to the previous 7890/7900 decision. The P7000 in the U.S. is priced at $2600 and the P6000 at $2145. Printing speed is essentially the same, so the issue is really price versus gamut and whether the gamut difference translates into a visible photographic print difference. I wish I could provide a good answer for the last. I think that in some cases it does, but without a side by side comparison no one would ever know.

P7000 Standard ink set...: C, LC, VM, VLM, Y, LK, LLK, O, G, PK/MK
P7000 Commercial ink set: C, LC, VM, VLM, Y, LK, V, O, G, PK/MK
P6000 ink set................: C, LC, VM, VLM, Y, LK, LLK, PK/MK

Good luck with your decision!

Hi Dean,

Thanks for the reply.  Some good points, and mostly the same ones I was researching for the 9900 seven years ago.  I had been checking the specs again on the P7000 Standard Edition and for some reason mistakenly included the Violet ink in my post.  I will definitely not be ordering the Commercial Edition, so that's moot, and I would not want to lose the LLK.  Otherwise I think I have probably come to a conclusion, it will be the P7000.  Even though I cannot readily point to any particular advantage tied to the Green and Orange inks, I have been using them in the 9900 for the past 6+ years, so I think I'll stay with what I know.  Here in Canada the P7000 sells for $3600, so the advantage is definitely south of the 49th, lucky you.  Obviously this has not been a post that garnered a lot of interest, but I do realize it has been somewhat covered before.  I suppose I was perhaps asking for information that no one has access to, since unless one has both the P6000 and the P7000 it's impossible to do A & B tests to show the advantage of the two added inks in the P7000, if indeed there is a noticeable advantage.

Thanks again Dean,

Gary     

[Mark D Segal]

Gary,

The additional inks (Green and Orange) provide extra gamut which shows in photos that need it, and obviously not in others that don't. While not observed from the comparison you were asking for, I think the story between the P800 and the SP4900 is the same - there is a narrow band of bright-green/yellowish gamut in which those two extra inks provide a degree of hue variation and vibrance you won't see without them. While not something apparent in every photo, if you want to be "covered" for the more comprehensive range of possibilities, my evidence from these other printers would point to the 7000 as the preferred choice.

[Garnick]

Gary,

The additional inks (Green and Orange) provide extra gamut which shows in photos that need it, and obviously not in others that don't. While not observed from the comparison you were asking for, I think the story between the P800 and the SP4900 is the same - there is a narrow band of bright-green/yellowish gamut in which those two extra inks provide a degree of hue variation and vibrance you won't see without them. While not something apparent in every photo, if you want to be "covered" for the more comprehensive range of possibilities, my evidence from these other printers would point to the 7000 as the preferred choice.

Hi Mark,

And thanks for your input as well.  As I mentioned, I have made my decision to go with the P7000, based almost exclusively on the 9900 experience.  And as you point out, there are those times, albeit few, when one might definitely require the additional inks to fill the gamut gap. 

By the way, I had just opened your review of the P800 to reread it, since it would seem to be more relevant to the P7000, and your reference to the SP4900 compared to the P800 is timely.  Thank you for adding to the list of pros for the P7000 over the P6000 in this case.

Thanks Mark,
Gary
   

[Mark D Segal]

You are welcome; I hope it works out well for you.

Mark

[tonyrom]

Adding a bit to the already great comments.  I had a P6000 and it was purchased back by Epson and purchased a P7000.  The marketing hype tells you the 7000 is the HDX inks. However, as already mentioned, all the base inks are the same and the 7000 has two additional inks Orange/Green.    As Mark has stated, the gamut is wider and unless you have a source/paper combo that will use the extra gamut, it will be hard to tell the difference.  At least today.  New papers and technology is always happening, so having the extra gamut is nice as things progress.  I have noticed smoother gradients on occasion.  The Orange and Green inks get consumed slower so the cost is not that much more.

They use identical heads, I know this from the tech guy.  He stated on the p6000, one less head set is used but it's identical.  The other difference in the printer is cosmetic.  The roll paper cover is a black finish instead of silver.

If you get a 7000, make sure it is the Standard one and NOT the commercial if you are doing photography

-tony

[Garnick]

Adding a bit to the already great comments.  I had a P6000 and it was purchased back by Epson and purchased a P7000.  The marketing hype tells you the 7000 is the HDX inks. However, as already mentioned, all the base inks are the same and the 7000 has two additional inks Orange/Green.    As Mark has stated, the gamut is wider and unless you have a source/paper combo that will use the extra gamut, it will be hard to tell the difference.  At least today.  New papers and technology is always happening, so having the extra gamut is nice as things progress.  I have noticed smoother gradients on occasion.  The Orange and Green inks get consumed slower so the cost is not that much more.

They use identical heads, I know this from the tech guy.  He stated on the p6000, one less head set is used but it's identical.  The other difference in the printer is cosmetic.  The roll paper cover is a black finish instead of silver.

If you get a 7000, make sure it is the Standard one and NOT the commercial if you are doing photography

-tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the input, although I had already made the decision to purchase the P7000, based on my experience with the 9900 for the past 6+ years.  If it weren't for the fact that I've been somewhat forced to downsize my equipment I would be moving the 9900 to my home location.  However, it is what it is and now the P7000 is the printer of choice for my business.  I know my customer base will become somewhat smaller due to this move, but at this point in my life that actually doesn't sound like a negative.  At the young(some days) age of 70, I don't mind downsizing that part of my life, even though I still enjoy working for and with all of the people I have been servicing for many years.  Just one more phase I guess, one of many.

Thanks again,

Gary 

[tonyrom]

Enjoy the printer and life!

-tony

[Rainer SLP]

Hi,

Thanks for this thread. I was about to buy the imagePROGRAF PRO-2000 from Canon but luckily Canon Mexicana is a great mess with customer service and took long to answer so I started to make my homework and now reading about the SC6000 and SC7000 I see some advantages.

I used to have a Epson Stylus Pro 7500 but had to send, a few days ago, it to the junkyard as I am not able to get inks anymore.

What I also like more about the EPSON SC6000 and 7000 is the straight in feeding allowing me to use the poster boards and the iPF PRO-2000 can not do that.

Will keep doing my homework.

How about nozzle clogging of the EPSON's, as somebody here said " iPF does not clog, period. "

Thanks guys 

[DeanChriss]

Hi,

Thanks for this thread. I was about to buy the imagePROGRAF PRO-2000 from Canon but luckily Canon Mexicana is a great mess with customer service and took long to answer so I started to make my homework and now reading about the SC6000 and SC7000 I see some advantages.

I used to have a Epson Stylus Pro 7500 but had to send, a few days ago, it to the junkyard as I am not able to get inks anymore.

What I also like more about the EPSON SC6000 and 7000 is the straight in feeding allowing me to use the poster boards and the iPF PRO-2000 can not do that.

Will keep doing my homework.

How about nozzle clogging of the EPSON's, as somebody here said " iPF does not clog, period. "

Thanks guys 

The iPF heads do clog, but when they do they automatically substitute the clogged nozzle for one of many spares. When all of the spares get used up you replace the head, which is considered a consumable item. That often happens at between 2 and 3 years but that depends on the amount of printing, temperature, humidity, etc. There are two heads on all but the newest generation and they cost $427.50 each at B&H. I believe the newest generation has one head that costs $675, so it's cheaper than replacing two heads in the older models. Epson uses a totally different head technology and the heads are not considered consumable items. When nozzles clog you clean them or the has the ability to detect and clean nozzles on its own.

I had a Epson 7900 for 7.5 years and while it worked well enough until it died it did have some clogging issues, especially in the summer months. In winter it could sometimes go 3 months without a clog and several weeks (even sitting unused) in winter with no clogs was common. In summer you could count on some clogs if it sat for unused, or even if it didn't. I can't say much about clogging issues on the P7000 because I've only had it since July 5 (11.5 weeks), but I have yet to see a clogged nozzle and it's summer. I can't say whether it clogs less or the printer is taking care of the clogs so I don't see them, but I don't really care which it is.

I hope that helps.

[Czornyj]

The iPF heads do not clog due to the nature of the beast. The thermal nozzles are way smaller that piezo, so there's much less space for air bubbles (that cause clogging) to gather, and the thermal element produces much more pressure than piezo membrane.

The back up nozzles are just to make sure no clogging will ever occur while printing - in case of a situation when a nozzle gets clogged the back up nozzle complements missing part of the print in next pass of the head. There's also a lot of automatic head maintenance procedures to avoid clogging - the ink carts and retention tanks are agitated, the heads are routinely checked, fired, and wiped with glycol. As a result I've never did a nozzle check nor saw any clogging related issues on a print for a couple of years, since I had switched from Epson SP7880 to Canon iPF6350>iPF8300>iPF PRO-4000.

[Wayne Fox]

The iPF heads do not clog due to the nature of the beast. The thermal nozzles are way smaller that piezo, so there's much less space for air bubbles (that cause clogging) to gather, and the thermal element produces much more pressure than piezo membrane.

The back up nozzles are just to make sure no clogging will ever occur while printing - in case of a situation when a nozzle gets clogged the back up nozzle complements missing part of the print in next pass of the head. There's also a lot of automatic head maintenance procedures to avoid clogging - the ink carts and retention tanks are agitated, the heads are routinely checked, fired, and wiped with glycol. As a result I've never did a nozzle check nor saw any clogging related issues on a print for a couple of years, since I had switched from Epson SP7880 to Canon iPF6350>iPF8300>iPF PRO-4000.

Just curious if you have any documentation about this, since it contradicts what has been discussed since the introduction of the Canon printers where it is reported that when a nozzle fails it is remapped to one of the spare nozzles, as well as the concept that the head has perhaps thousands of spare nozzles in the 30,000+ nozzles in the head.  This also somewhat contradicts the idea when the spare nozzles are consumed this requires a change in the head.

Of course there are some semantics involved here, as any time a nozzle doesn't print think it is termed as "clogged", but there are several reasons for this besides an ink clog.  In an epson it is often lack of ink to the nozzle, but can also be from failure of the underlying electronics, something I assume the Canon nozzle eventually can be subject to.

[Czornyj]

In PF-05 there was a lot of spare nozzles, but in practice the printhead never run out of them - as a result Canon reduced the amount of nozzles from 2560 per channel (32k in total) in PF-05 to 1536 per channel in PF-10 (18k in total). The piezo membrane needs a large ink chamber, so the nozzle density is 180-360 per inch, where in case of much more compact thermal nozzles there's 1200 nozzles per inch. The head is printing at 600dpi, so each nozzle is backed up with a spare nozzle that can compensate clogged nozzle in the following pass of the carriage. When a couple of clogged nozzles are detected the printer stops printing and makes automatic cleaning, which (from my experience) is relatively rare situation. Because thermal element produces more pressure, and there's no place for air bubbles that reduce ink pressue, the cleaning is more effective and uses less ink than in case of piezoelectric print heads, so in practice one cleaning cycle always cleans clogged nozzles, and the amount of wasted ink is noticeably smaller.

PF-05 used to fail suddenly (due to shortcuts?), with half or whole channel missing - not because they ran out of spare nozzles. New PF-10 has much more thermal sensors, more physical security against media strikes, and is supposed to be more robust and reliable, not to mention that it costs much less than 2 x PF-05.

[Garnick]

Just finished reading the P7000 review by Keith Cooper(northlight-images) and I have a question that wasn't covered there, although I seem to recall seeing it in another thread. Unfortunately I cannot find said thread at the moment. Keith certainly covers a lot of ground, although most of it is quite familiar, since I've been using the SP9900 for the past 6+ years. During that time I've been doing all K ink switches in Service Mode, as I'm sure many of you are familiar with. That's about the only way to insure that the printer does not initiate a general cleaning cycle following the switch.  I would rather do a nozzle check and pick the colour pair that needs cleaning than let the printer perform a global cleaning automatically. This method has served me well for most of the 6+ years in which the 9900 has been my main printer. My question is as follows. Can one enter Service Mode on the P7000 in the same manner as on the SP9900? If that is the case, can the CL cycles for pairs cleaning be initiated in Service Mode on the P7000? In the aforementioned thread that I cannot find in the archives, I think I recall reading that the SC series of printers take care all cleaning procedures in Standard Mode, and that it is not available in Service Mode. Is my memory correct, or are the CL Pairs cycles still available in Service Mode for the SC P7000? If that is not the case, do the cleaning cycles in Standard Mode for the P7000 offer the same degree of flexibility as in Service Mode for the SP9900?

And one more question. I've noticed that the maintenance tank on the P7000 carries a different cat. number than the one for the SP9900. Does that mean it is a different chip, or simply a different cat. number. For the SP9900 I currently have three maintenance tanks that I recycle with the chip resetter, but if the tank for the P7000 is indeed a different chip I will have to purchase a new resetter. Since I did find a main/tank resetter for the P7000 on the Alibaba site I assume the latter is the case, but not sure. Any info would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Gary         

[Wayne Fox]

I looked at Service mode on my p9000 when I first installed it, seemed like most of what was in the old printer is now gone.  I don’t think the cleaning options were there.  Not sure about the black ink switch.

I have noticed my p9000 doesn’t seem to clean between switches, (I’ve switched 4 or 5 times now, I think it cleaned once but it seemed shorter than other cleans).  So not sure if there was an improvement or if the old system just triggered false cleans.

The maintenance tank is new.  While it looks almost the same, the new tank actually has a hole under where the ink is drained through the top layer of fabric, so the ink ends up in the bottom of the tank.  Not sure if this allows it to hold more ink or if just keeps ink away from the top of the cartridge. As far as the chip, it is new, and has been designed to prevent resetting.  Whether anyone can get around this or not I don’t know.  See this thread from inkjet mall.

We do a lot of printing from various epson printers and to be honest each one only requires maybe one or two of these a year. I only needed to replace one of these in my 9900 in several years of use.  Seems like a lot hassle to buy a chip resetter for a pretty inexpensive part. 

[dgberg]

I looked at Service mode on my p9000 when I first installed it, seemed like most of what was in the old printer is now gone.  I don’t think the cleaning options were there.  Not sure about the black ink switch.

I have noticed my p9000 doesn’t seem to clean between switches, (I’ve switched 4 or 5 times now, I think it cleaned once but it seemed shorter than other cleans).  So not sure if there was an improvement or if the old system just triggered false cleans.

The maintenance tank is new.  While it looks almost the same, the new tank actually has a hole under where the ink is drained through the top layer of fabric, so the ink ends up in the bottom of the tank.  Not sure if this allows it to hold more ink or if just keeps ink away from the top of the cartridge. As far as the chip, it is new, and has been designed to prevent resetting.  Whether anyone can get around this or not I don’t know.  See this thread from inkjet mall.

We do a lot of printing from various epson printers and to be honest each one only requires maybe one or two of these a year. I only needed to replace one of these in my 9900 in several years of use.  Seems like a lot hassle to buy a chip resetter for a pretty inexpensive part.

For the 9900 and other models you can purchase non OEM tanks on Amazon for about $35.00 for two. Half the OEM price.
Have not seen them for the newer models to date.

[Garnick]

I looked at Service mode on my p9000 when I first installed it, seemed like most of what was in the old printer is now gone.  I don’t think the cleaning options were there.  Not sure about the black ink switch.

I have noticed my p9000 doesn’t seem to clean between switches, (I’ve switched 4 or 5 times now, I think it cleaned once but it seemed shorter than other cleans).  So not sure if there was an improvement or if the old system just triggered false cleans.

The maintenance tank is new.  While it looks almost the same, the new tank actually has a hole under where the ink is drained through the top layer of fabric, so the ink ends up in the bottom of the tank.  Not sure if this allows it to hold more ink or if just keeps ink away from the top of the cartridge. As far as the chip, it is new, and has been designed to prevent resetting.  Whether anyone can get around this or not I don’t know.  See this thread from inkjet mall.

We do a lot of printing from various epson printers and to be honest each one only requires maybe one or two of these a year. I only needed to replace one of these in my 9900 in several years of use.  Seems like a lot hassle to buy a chip resetter for a pretty inexpensive part.

Thank you Wayne, much appreciated. In reference to the Maintenance Tank chip resetter, here's the one I saw on the Alibaba site https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Maintanence-tank-chip-resetter-for-Epson_60493676627.html. There's also a video on YouTube showing how to use the resetter, irrelevant in my case. It would appear that the minimum order is 5, so obviously I won't be purchasing one there, and probably not at all. Interesting discussion between Jon Cone and Mark Savoia, good information. Well, good in one sense but perhaps not so good in another. I guess I should rephrase it as "necessary information". Another question relates to the Service Mode on the P7000. Do you know if it's still possible to replace the wiper blade and do at least some degree of cleaning/maintenance on the pump/cap station as we have been able to do on the SP9900? Of course I do intend to extend the warranty to its fullest term, so that information would likely not be relevant until the warranty has expired. By that time I'm sure another "Eric" will have emerged with all sorts of GREAT information about the P series printers.

Gary   

[Ken Doo]

Has anyone actually used a chip resetter on the maintenance tank for the Epson P9000?

I have a short stack of Epson maintenance tanks work on previous generations of 9900/9890/et al-----but found out the hard way that Epson's stinker of a new approach on the P series uses a new chip (and ergo a different maintenance tank) that precludes recycling and resetting the maintenance tank chip. (thanks Epson for making things more difficult).

New P9000 maintenance tanks are on order---but would be nice to be able to recycle and repack the tanks....

ken

[Garnick]

I looked at Service mode on my p9000 when I first installed it, seemed like most of what was in the old printer is now gone.  I don’t think the cleaning options were there.  Not sure about the black ink switch.

I have noticed my p9000 doesn’t seem to clean between switches, (I’ve switched 4 or 5 times now, I think it cleaned once but it seemed shorter than other cleans).  So not sure if there was an improvement or if the old system just triggered false cleans.

The maintenance tank is new.  While it looks almost the same, the new tank actually has a hole under where the ink is drained through the top layer of fabric, so the ink ends up in the bottom of the tank.  Not sure if this allows it to hold more ink or if just keeps ink away from the top of the cartridge. As far as the chip, it is new, and has been designed to prevent resetting.  Whether anyone can get around this or not I don’t know.  See this thread from inkjet mall.

We do a lot of printing from various epson printers and to be honest each one only requires maybe one or two of these a year. I only needed to replace one of these in my 9900 in several years of use.  Seems like a lot hassle to buy a chip resetter for a pretty inexpensive part.

Hello Wayne,

I just reread your reply to my earlier post(P6000 vs P7000) and also reread the discussion between Jon Cone and Mark Savoia, very interesting.  I assume that in your business you do have that locked door that Jon was talking about.  You know, the room in which you keep all of the non-Epson papers etc., so that if you require a service call your warranty will not be voided.  I do print canvas and plan to continue that service, but I will not be using the Epson canvas, never have.  Therefore, I guess I'll also have to build a vault for that media, although all of the papers I use are Epson products, so not an issue.  Also an interesting statement from Mark Savoia about the Square Trade warranty, although not an alternative here in Canada I'm sure.

Thanks again for the info Wayne,
Gary