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Author Topic: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400  (Read 10593 times)

svds

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Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« on: September 01, 2016, 03:39:05 am »

Current owner of a cursed Z3200.. and tempted to jump ship to Canon or Epson just in spite.
But have access to nicely priced Z5200 44" postscript and Z5400 priced the same.. I guess
It's a no-brainer to go with the Z5400.. but just wanted some input from member with these
newer printers as far as output performance and reliability.. something my Z3200 lacked.

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 08:02:05 am »

Price isn't everything. As you should be aware by now, when buying a piece of complex machinery you need to be mindful of after sales support and serviceability and performance reliability. These days, many printers are about as good as each other in terms of output quality, so the main things one focuses on are user-friendliness, features and after-sales support and service. I think it's a good idea to look carefully at all three major brands in respect of these factors before jumping into a large spending decision that will be with you for some years to come.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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shadowblade

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2016, 08:48:30 am »

What exactly do you want in a printer? That will determine which printer is most suitable.

The Z5200 and Z5400 are production machines designed to churn out large volumes of printed material, but have only 8 inks and lack the gamut of the Z3200 (which is already slightly less than the Canon and Epson photo printers, although it makes up for this in other respects). I wouldn't consider them suitable for critical photo work. But, if your aim is mass production of photos and other printed materials for a less-discerning audience (or those who don't need a wide gamut) they may well fit your bill.

The Z3200 is an extremely reliable machine. It will just keep printing and printing, even if you go months between prints (e.g. when away for a shooting trip), unlike Epsons, which will clog within days, and clog so readily that you need to run a test print to check for dropped nozzles before starting any significant print job. And, when clogs finally start to show, replacing the head is cheap. It literally took a falling porcelain toilet to kill mine.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2016, 09:48:08 am »

It literally took a falling porcelain toilet to kill mine.

No video of that accident? Might attract as many viewers as that Epson 9900 sledgehammer one.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2016, 09:52:35 am »

No video of that accident? Might attract as many viewers as that Epson 9900 sledgehammer one.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Then maybe at least we we'd see the difference between a printer under the toilet versus down the toilet!  :-)
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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LenR

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2016, 10:08:48 am »

FWIW I was talking to tech support the other day and was told the Z3200 replacement is due this winter. 
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shadowblade

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 11:20:12 am »

FWIW I was talking to tech support the other day and was told the Z3200 replacement is due this winter.

Let's hope it still has 12 inks (or more) and they haven't done anything to reduce the longevity of the Vivera inkset...
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shadowblade

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2016, 10:57:03 pm »

FWIW I was talking to tech support the other day and was told the Z3200 replacement is due this winter.

Anyone else heard anything similar?

This could, quite literally, be the best news from HP in a decade.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2016, 03:09:29 pm »

Anyone else heard anything similar?

This could, quite literally, be the best news from HP in a decade.

Mark Lindquist hinted at that possibility some months ago.
There  have been introductions of 6 ink Z models already so .......
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=2251371#.V83CQs7I6Uk
Photokina 2016 is a good place to announce printers that will be available early next year. Like they did in 2006 and 2008, the last not really a decade ago.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2016, 09:31:25 pm »

Mark Lindquist hinted at that possibility some months ago.
There  have been introductions of 6 ink Z models already so .......
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=2251371#.V83CQs7I6Uk
Photokina 2016 is a good place to announce printers that will be available early next year. Like they did in 2006 and 2008, the last not really a decade ago.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

We'll see if they come through.  They are calling the new inks "HP Vivid Photo Inks " and they test better than Vivera.
I hope they do the no-brainer thing and stick with a next-gen 3200ps called (can't say).

We'll all just have to wait. 

They will be doing the Vivera inks for at least another 5 years, not sure how long beyond that.  Everything depends....

-Mark
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shadowblade

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2016, 02:40:29 am »

One thing's for sure - if they test better than Vivera longevity-wise, a side-by-side comparison test between them will be a looong, drawn-out affair.

Added longevity can only be a good thing. And a boost to gamut and Dmax (especially on matte paper) would be welcome - I was very impressed with the output of the Canon Pro-2000 on some saturated, high-contrast shots.
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Geraldo Garcia

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2016, 11:34:49 am »

We'll see if they come through.  They are calling the new inks "HP Vivid Photo Inks " and they test better than Vivera.
I hope they do the no-brainer thing and stick with a next-gen 3200ps called (can't say).
Hello Mark,

"HP Vivid Photo Inks" is the inkset used on their Z6200 8 inks production unit. I guess they are adding some colors to make a Z3200 replacement.
I was unable to find much info on those inks other than the usual "pigmented inks" and "over 200 years indoor permanence away from direct sunlight on selected media" but gamut plots and permanence ratings without the (expected) new colors wouldn't mean much anyway.

Honestly I don't care for more permanence than Vivera's. That is more than enough for today standards, but if they manage to keep the permanence at the same level, the inexpensive and user replaceable printheads, increase the printing speed, the gamut and Dmax to the level of the current Canons and Epsons while keeping the on-board spectro and their killer neutral B&W... That would be the printer of my dreams. 
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2016, 07:05:58 pm »

Hi Geraldo,
I absolutely agree with you wholeheartedly!  Why mess with success!

That was my point during my discussions.  We'll see what happens.

:-)

Mark
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shadowblade

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 06:45:54 am »

IMO the appeal of the Z3200 to photographers comes down to two major things:

1. The longevity of the Vivera inks.

2. The ease of maintenance (i.e. almost none required), with automatic nozzle mapping and cheap, replaceable heads, resulting in a printer that can lie dormant for months before printing with 100% reliability.

The inbuilt spectro is very nice, but not essential.

Whatever the other changes are, if these factors stay the same or are improved on, the printer will be great.

Vivera inks have a larger pigment particle size than Epson Ultrachrome K3 or HDR inks (not sure about the latest HDX inks). This probably accounts for a significant part of their better longevity. I hope that, in whatever ink formulation HP decide to use, they haven't reduced the particle size in an effort to chase gamut and, instead, improved gamut and further improved longevity by increasing the pigment load (whether through new resin/surfactant/carrier fluid formulation or through new head design).
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2016, 06:09:47 am »

We'll see if they come through.  They are calling the new inks "HP Vivid Photo Inks " and they test better than Vivera.
I hope they do the no-brainer thing and stick with a next-gen 3200ps called (can't say).

We'll all just have to wait. 

They will be doing the Vivera inks for at least another 5 years, not sure how long beyond that.  Everything depends....

-Mark

Could not visit the Photokina this time but I did not see HP news on a Z3300 or alike either.
However the Z3200 is still mentioned in relation with more recent HP wide formats and the Photokina 2016:
http://www.worldofprint.de/2016/08/16/hp-zeigt-auf-der-photokina-2016-neue-wachstumschancen-im-fotodruck/

Which means continuing support for that printer IMHO. And the possibility that a successor could appear later on.

I am not unhappy with that knowledge.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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deanwork

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2016, 04:29:49 pm »

No kidding,

Wilhelm's figures for the Canson papers I use on the Z are already >450 years, for what that's worth. That's twice the figures for my Canon Lucia inks. ( and the new Epson inks most likely).http://www.wilhelm-research.com/Canson/canson_infinity.html

The Inkpress rag media figures for the Z are >500 years.  That is the same figure I once saw for the carbon transfer process the most permanent photo process of all time. http://www.wilhelm-research.com/inkpress/inkpress.html

Those figures are behind glass with uv filtration. My dmax on the Z on Canson matte media is about 1.8, that's way beyond anything else I've ever used. But I haven't used the new Epson inks, which are probably close to that, maybe. I'll definitely wait until HP releases their new one before I buy and expensive P10K.

If I had a Z with one more extra light gray I wouldn't need anything else. With HP you can renew the warranty anytime you want for as long as you want. And they don't rip you off when they do work on them.
 
john




One thing's for sure - if they test better than Vivera longevity-wise, a side-by-side comparison test between them will be a looong, drawn-out affair.

Added longevity can only be a good thing. And a boost to gamut and Dmax (especially on matte paper) would be welcome - I was very impressed with the output of the Canon Pro-2000 on some saturated, high-contrast shots.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 04:36:21 pm by deanwork »
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2016, 08:52:10 pm »

I'm not surprised they haven't announced anything new yet.  At the time, just a few short months ago, I was told they have been so busy with their latex printers they just haven't had time to work on the Z series - that it has been the farthest thing from their minds.  I made my suggestions (many of them) and there were copious notes taken.  I pushed my points, many of which have been expressed here, but there is no telling what corporate will do.  I think they will continue to be loyal to Z Series customers - it is just the impression I got.  I did get other impressions, but I just can't say at this point.  I keep saying we'll just have to wait, and that only time will tell.  It's true, we'll wait and see.

I am in agreement with Ernst and John and SB - even if they don't do anything and continue to manufacture the printers and the inks, I'm good to go and a happy camper.

Mark

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jtmiller

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 09:41:22 pm »

It would be nice if they fixed their HP utility which is rather broken in places.

USB support hasn't worked since Win7.

Currently it doesn't work well enough even on the LAN on Win10 to show estimated ink levels.

jim
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2016, 04:12:19 am »

It would be nice if they fixed their HP utility which is rather broken in places.

USB support hasn't worked since Win7.

Currently it doesn't work well enough even on the LAN on Win10 to show estimated ink levels.

jim

130ML cart hardware is roughly 50 grams, anything above that is ink, 1 gram = 1 ML. 300ML cart hardware is 120 grams, anything above that is ink. This never gave me trouble, I use only HP Vivera pigment ink but tend to tweak cartridges where it counts.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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jtmiller

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Re: Opinions of Z5200 and/or Z5400
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2016, 09:08:31 am »

We only use genuine HP ink here as well. The hardware has been fine. Prints are beautiful but software is spotty.

jim
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 09:12:32 am by jtmiller »
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