Canon Driver Epson 2000 Margin Problem And Solution

[HowardG]

I have noted a very significant problem with the driver in my new Canon IPG 2000 using Windows 10 64 bit and PS CC 2016. Despite choosing 'center print' in the Canon driver, the PS print dialogue, or both, the print will simply not come anything close to being centered when printing on cut sheets, though roll paper works fine. The problem seems to lie (as indicated by the red arrows in the attached image) in the fact that no matter what I do (and the same holds true if I use the Canon Free Layout option) the driver seems to ignore an area of the paper at the bottom.  I have been emailing Canon about this and they say yes there is an undefined 'problem, printing from PS, that Free Layout will work (it doesn't) or to print from the Print Pro Canon plug in (haven't tested it because it doesn't allow black point compensation) or that the printer requires a 3mm margin at top and sides but an 8mm margin at bottom (there is way more than a 5mm difference in centering). Nothing has worked.

I do have a good workaround I thought I would post if anyone else is having a similar issue (and I am curious if people are having this issue).  I experimented with turning off the "center" in PS print dialogue and lowering the image from the top of the page until it just started to disappear where the white printable image becomes the shading in the attached screenshot, printed, and measured how much of the 8.5x11 sheet was being 'ignored'. The answer was 21mm and not 8mm. Did the same moving the image closer to the top of the page till it wasn't seen in the PS dialogue and the answer was 3mm (as expected given the border requirements). If one takes the image and clicks 'center' in the PS print dialogue and notes the distance from the top of the page (given in the dialogue), adds 9mm to it, unchecks 'center' and now fills in that sum as the distance to place the image from the top of the page it comes out centered on the physical sheet  (21-9=3+9).  This is on 8.5x11 sheets.  I have not experimented to see if the Canon driver ignores the same 21mm on larger sized sheets.  The downside is that it limits the size of the image that can be printed on the sheet by a bit.

Just curious if others using PS and Windows have had the same issue (I can't find any settings that would alter it and Canon tech support claims it is not a setting issue) and if anyone else that might have the problem has found a better workaround?

Howard

[Geraldo Garcia]

Let me see if I got your problem:

You want the image to centered on the paper sheet, right?
The problem is that Canon/Photoshop bases the centering on the printable area. As the bottom margin is bigger, the center of the printable area is above the middle of the paper sheet.

It honestly puzzles me why they never offered a center option based on the paper sheet. My "workaround" is to use a proper printing software to print, but you can try this:

1 - Resize your image to the desired size.
2 - Grow white margins around it to the exact size of the paper sheet.
3 - On the PS print dialog uncheck "Center", leave the "scale" at 100% and set the "top" and "left" position to minus the top and left printer's margin value.

That should center your image.

[HowardG]

Thanks Geraldo. That is sort of what I am doing as a workaround. Part of the problem is that the Canon documentation states that the margins on the top and sides must be at least 3mm and the bottom 8mm.  But I am getting a 21mm margin at the bottom that I cant seem to change.

What software are you using to print from?

Howard

[Nick Walker]

Using the Canon Pro 1000, Lightroom cannot centre a print with ease. Canon's Print Studio Pro gets the margins/white border exactly right without any issues, though I don't like the Canon software user interface and limited options compared Lightroom's - PPI, sharpening, etc.

[HowardG]

I would just give up and use the plug in if it was able to use black point compensation in the rendering intent!

[Geraldo Garcia]

Thanks Geraldo. That is sort of what I am doing as a workaround. Part of the problem is that the Canon documentation states that the margins on the top and sides must be at least 3mm and the bottom 8mm.  But I am getting a 21mm margin at the bottom that I cant seem to change.

What software are you using to print from?

Howard

I never used this printer of yours, but the leaflet clearly states:

Margins Printable area:
Roll paper: Top: 3 mm, Bottom: 3 mm, Side: 3 mm
Roll paper (borderless): Top: 0 mm, Bottom: 0 mm, Side: 0 mm
Cut sheet: Top: 3 mm, Bottom: 20 mm, Side: 3 mm

About the software, we use several as some are exclusive to one system (PC or Mac) and others are model/manufacturer exclusive. Qimage ultimate is the best/least expensive solution, but windows only.

[Geraldo Garcia]

I would just give up and use the plug in if it was able to use black point compensation in the rendering intent!

Well...
You can convert the image to the paper/printer profile on phostoshop using BPC and print it from the plugin with no color management (as if it was a target for a profile).
Regards.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

What software are you using to print from?

Hi Howard,

If there is indeed a bug, then nothing will allow easy centering.

I use Qimage Ultimate to print (or prepare a print-file for off-site printing), and it usually has no difficulty in printing centered on the physical output medium (instead of the printable area). It does allow to finetune the centering if there is some small difference, but I'm not sure how that would interact with a bug (unless it's only Adobe related).

Cheers,
Bart

[HowardG]

Geraldo....amazing how errors can be made when not being careful....I am talking about myself......Canon tech support had sent me this:

"Thank you for your continued correspondence.

The printing that you are performing may be out of the printing area of the imagePROGRAF PRO-2000.

When printing on sheets, there is a margin around the edges of the paper that is an unprintable area.

The minimum margins are as follows:

                         Top Edge (A)       Bottom Edge (B)          Sides (C and D)
Sheets                0.2 in (3mm)          0.8 in (20mm)               0.2 in (3mm)
Roll Paper          0.2 in (3mm)          0.2 in (3mm)                 0.2 in (3mm) "

Reading it my eyes somehow read 8mm instead of 20.  The 20 would be exactly right as I think I had measured that the software was 'ignoring' about 21 mm at the bottom of the sheet.  I am sure the extra mm is just within the error of my measurement.  That explains quite a bit about why it is happening (though I can't imagine why they would have allowed this ro occur when doing the programming).

Howard

[HowardG]

Hi Howard,

If there is indeed a bug, then nothing will allow easy centering.

I use Qimage Ultimate to print (or prepare a print-file for off-site printing), and it usually has no difficulty in printing centered on the physical output medium (instead of the printable area). It does allow to finetune the centering if there is some small difference, but I'm not sure how that would interact with a bug (unless it's only Adobe related).

Cheers,
Bart

Thanks Bart!  I may have to give QImage a try.

Howard

[HowardG]

Well...
You can convert the image to the paper/printer profile on phostoshop using BPC and print it from the plugin with no color management (as if it was a target for a profile).
Regards.

Have you tired that?  Will it definitely work if sent out with no color management?

Howard

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Thanks Bart!  I may have to give QImage a try.

Here's a Youtube video that specifically addresses the centering procedure in Qimage.

Cheers,
Bart

[HowardG]

Thanks Bart. Certainly looks like it is pretty easy in QImage based on the video.  If I purchase QImage does the interaction betwen QImage and the Canon driver mean that I would always need to use QImage to print from or could I also just print through PS using the Canon driver as if QImage weren't there and get results as if I were using the Canon driver alone?

Is it safe to say that QImage does the heavy lifting in terms of resizing and sharpening etc and then hands the image off to the Canon driver so that the Canon driver does its own resampling, dithering etc? I ask this because I would assume (maybe wrongly so) that since Canon makes the machine their algorithms would likely be best?

Howard

[Denis de Gannes]

Quote "Is it safe to say that QImage does the heavy lifting in terms of resizing and sharpening etc and then hands the image off to the Canon driver so that the Canon driver does its own resampling, dithering etc?"

Absolutely not, Qimage does everything so that the Canon driver does not have to do any thing except print.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Thanks Bart. Certainly looks like it is pretty easy in QImage based on the video.  If I purchase QImage does the interaction betwen QImage and the Canon driver mean that I would always need to use QImage to print from or could I also just print through PS using the Canon driver as if QImage weren't there and get results as if I were using the Canon driver alone?

No, you typically produce a normal size TIFF or maximum quality JPEG as output with PS, and let Qimage handle everything else. Qimage will resample to exactly what the printer driver says it needs, based on requested output size (even multiple sizes if needed), output sharpens at the final size, anf converts to the output medium's media profile. It can even add dithering to prevent posterization in overly smooth gradients.

You just place the file(s) that need to be printed in 'the queue' and request the output size, and Qimage does the rest, even optimally placing multiple prints on a single page to conserve paper automatically, or arranged otherwise. It can even print a single image on a mosaic of multiple pages if the total output size exceeds the available paper size.

Is it safe to say that QImage does the heavy lifting in terms of resizing and sharpening etc and then hands the image off to the Canon driver...

Yes, sofar.

...so that the Canon driver does its own resampling, dithering etc?

No, the printer driver only prints without any further alteration.

I ask this because I would assume (maybe wrongly so) that since Canon makes the machine their algorithms would likely be best?

One would hope so, but the only thing it does well is dither the intermediate ink color mix and feed the paper. Even colormanagement is switched off in the driver, Qimage already did that after resizing which created new interpolated and sharpened colors.

Printer drivers have limited capabilities and the printers don't have enough Processing power (that's why they use simple/inferior resampling methods), and might run out of memory. Qimage just sends the pre-cooked chunks of pixel data, and the printer driver dithers in color what's given.

Cheers,
Bart

[dgberg]

Not sure what you can and cannot do with the Canon?
With Epson and Lightroom just pick the Letter 8 1/2 x 11 borderless retain size.
If your image is truly letter size it will print with no borders.
If you want equal borders you set the margins to what ever you want and click zoom to fill.
Some cropping will take place if you set margins.

[Geraldo Garcia]

Have you tired that?  Will it definitely work if sent out with no color management?

Of course, as long as you have previously converted to the printer/paper profile using the desired rendering intent and BPC.
Regards.

[HowardG]

No, you typically produce a normal size TIFF or maximum quality JPEG as output with PS, and let Qimage handle everything else. Qimage will resample to exactly what the printer driver says it needs, based on requested output size (even multiple sizes if needed), output sharpens at the final size, anf converts to the output medium's media profile. It can even add dithering to prevent posterization in overly smooth gradients.

You just place the file(s) that need to be printed in 'the queue' and request the output size, and Qimage does the rest, even optimally placing multiple prints on a single page to conserve paper automatically, or arranged otherwise. It can even print a single image on a mosaic of multiple pages if the total output size exceeds the available paper size.

I guess what I am asking is IF you would prefer to use the Canon driver because you don't like the QImage results, don't like the interface or for whatever reason can you simply forget QImage (even though it is still installed), go to PS and print through the native Canon driver and get results that are the same as if QImage was not installed?  Or does QImage insist on integrating itself into the entire process so that you can't use the native Canon driver the same way as before QImage was installed? 

Thanks

Howard
www.howardgrill.com

[Geraldo Garcia]

I guess what I am asking is IF you would prefer to use the Canon driver because you don't like the QImage results, don't like the interface or for whatever reason can you simply forget QImage (even though it is still installed), go to PS and print through the native Canon driver and get results that are the same as if QImage was not installed?  Or does QImage insist on integrating itself into the entire process so that you can't use the native Canon driver the same way as before QImage was installed? 

No, not at all. You can use whatever software you want at any time.
Actually, Qimage uses the manufacturer's driver, so it is not a true RIP. It just talks to the driver and process everything nicely.
You will curse the interface and the way Qimage does certain things until you get used to it, that is granted.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I guess what I am asking is IF you would prefer to use the Canon driver because you don't like the QImage results, don't like the interface or for whatever reason can you simply forget QImage (even though it is still installed), go to PS and print through the native Canon driver and get results that are the same as if QImage was not installed?

As Geraldo said. Qimage is a standalone application that opens imagefiles and outputs through the printer driver, but with optimized data that the printerdriver doesn't have to change (resize/colormanage).

Qimage will always (assuming decent parameters are used) produce better results because it uses better resampling algirithms, and applies Smart sharpening after resampling. But it doesn't prohibit from printing directly from Photoshop, bypassing Qimage altogether, to the same printerdriver (and get worse results because Qimage is not used).

Qimage can also be setup to use a hotfolder (watched folder), and it will print whatever image files appear in that folder, from whatever source/application that can access that folder. This allows to e.g. send an image by phone to a network folder, and print it remotely.

Or does QImage insist on integrating itself into the entire process so that you can't use the native Canon driver the same way as before QImage was installed?

No, it's not integrating itself in the print pipeline, so you can ignore it if you wish and print straight from PS to printerdriver to printer.

Cheers,
Bart