First MFD Back?

[adam tracksler]

Looking to make the jump into hobby MFD.

I have a Mamiya AFD, and probably will use it on my Toyo 45A....

Looking at lower end backs like Phase P25 and Mamiya ZD.

Anything I should be looking for? Any suggestions?

My photos are a lot like My Flickr Stream

[BernardLanguillier]

I would personnally be very careful about the Mamiya ZD. The D3x was already superior, your current Sony a7 is miles ahead. The usage enveloppe of the Mamiya is extremely limited per my experience:
- base ISO only
- mirror lock up only (bad mirror shake)
- exposures shorter than 2-3s
- temperatures above 5C (battery life)

It can deliver nice image quality within those boundaries. They were way too constraining for me.

It may be fine for your applications though.

However you seem to like macro, you have many more lenses option in 35mm.

I believe that a P25+ is much more usable overall.

Cheers,
Bernard

[DanielStone]

A used Leaf Aptus or Phase P+ back would be a great way to go. Even an older H3D(maybe even H4D, depending on your budgetary limitations) would be an option, and are widely available on the used market as many have returned to high-megapixed 35mm cameras in recent years.

WHY would you NEED MFD, just out of curiosity? Is there something that a 5Ds/sR or A7RII or D810 couldn't deliver? With proper post processing, you can pretty much match color rendering, although some might argue the opposite.

Will MFD put you ahead, technically, or is this simply to try it out?
Not challenging you, per se, just asking out of curiosity

-Dan

[eronald]

If you can shoot tethered, an old Imacon back will cost you about $1K.

Edmund

[BobShaw]

Hobby MFD is a bit of an oxymoron.
Unless you only want to use it on a view camera I don't recommend buying a back.
It is like needing a car and buying a wheel.
I suggest a Hasselblad H3DII and then you have something you can grow with and probably a lot cheaper.
I started with Mamiya gear AFD etc but the Hasselblad leaves them for dead in every aspect.

[Theodoros]

If you can shoot tethered, an old Imacon back will cost you about $1K.

Edmund

The AFD (not the AFDII and later) works perfect if tethered in combination with an Imacon 132c, not only it provides tethered without the need of an exterior cable, but it supports LV too (although of "basic" quality) with the (free) flexcolor sofrware... Other than that, it will work tethered with his Toyo 45 too. 

But I would prefer the Imacon 132C over a P25 anyway on the AFD and Toyo for untethered hand held shooting too for several reasons...

1. It is independent to CF card technology/compatibility...
2. It can shoot 1200 images in its image bank when used hand held/untethered....
3. It is the same sensor and sharpness  as well as ISO than the P25, but more accurate/neutral in its colors....
4. It doesn't need an "one shot" cable as to use it on the TOYO...
5. It takes interchangeable plates in case he'll want to use a different platform in the future...

That said, it still amazes me how good the 37x49mm KODAK sensor backs stand against todays technology... They really do have that "fat pixel magic" looks that many prefer over anything modern. I know many pros that are holding up to their 22mp KODAK sensor backs as to use for both their MF platforms and view/tech cameras for its unique image quality and "looks"...  Never the less, having good experience out of all 22mp backs, I would much prefer the Kodak sensor backs over the Dalsla sensor ones if it is for 22mp... The Dalsa sensor I would prefer on its 33mp version over the Kodak sensor 39mp backs.... Particularly if the use on a tech camera is of major consideration for the user, I don't think the 22mp Kodak sensor backs have much competition around and the Imacon 132c is "in a class of its own" for the particular use, tethered or untethered.

[imagetone]

A used Leaf Aptus or Phase P+ back would be a great way to go. Even an older H3D(maybe even H4D, depending on your budgetary limitations) would be an option, and are widely available on the used market as many have returned to high-megapixed 35mm cameras in recent years.

+1

Given the variety of subjects you shoot a 22mp back would mean you don't lose too much wide angle capability and getting a model that takes cards means you don't have to lug a laptop everywhere - but don't expect to get a really good view of the captured image without a laptop (not on the P+ anyway - the screen on the back is only good for a histogram and clumsy/slow focus checking. You could probably pick up a 16mp back (eg P20) very cheaply but like the 30mp backs it's more of a crop. Don't expect to shoot anything much in low light without a tripod. The P+ backs have an extra useable stop over the P but personally I've never used my P25+ at ISO800. Don't know the Aptus range.

[Theodoros]

....getting a model that takes cards means you don't have to lug a laptop everywhere....

The Imacon 132c doesn't take cards, but it is a self contained back which doesn't need a computer to operate... It has an exterior hard disc (called the "image bank") which one sticks to the side of his trousers belt and can store up to 1200 images on it... The battery is on the image bank too which is very beneficial as to keep heat under control on the back... Only the screen is on the back.  Other than that, Imacon 132C & P25 use the Kodak 22mp 37x49 sensor, while Sinarback Emotion 22, Aptus 22 & ZD use the 36x48mm Dalsa sensor. There is a completely different look between the Dalsa and Kodak sensors... The Kodak sensors backs are the reason behind the "fat pixel magic" saying...

[eronald]

The Imacon 132c doesn't take cards, but it is a self contained back which doesn't need a computer to operate... It has an exterior hard disc (called the "image bank") which one sticks to the side of his trousers belt and can store up to 1200 images on it... The battery is on the image bank too which is very beneficial as to keep heat under control on the back... Only the screen is on the back.  Other than that, Imacon 132C & P25 use the Kodak 22mp 37x49 sensor, while Sinarback Emotion 22, Aptus 22 & ZD use the 36x48mm Dalsa sensor. There is a completely different look between the Dalsa and Kodak sensors... The Kodak sensors backs are the reason behind the "fat pixel magic" saying...

Yes, the H3D22 has the same Kodak chip I think. But the Aptus 22 was also nice, I seem to remember, although maybe a different chip.

But there were some shift-related issues with some of these backs - can someone remember which?

Edmund

[imagetone]

The Imacon 132c doesn't take cards, but it is a self contained back which doesn't need a computer to operate... It has an exterior hard disc (called the "image bank") which one sticks to the side of his trousers belt and can store up to 1200 images on it... The battery is on the image bank too which is very beneficial as to keep heat under control on the back... Only the screen is on the back. 

I remember the Imagebank but I'd forgotten those Imacon backs had (small) screens.

But there were some shift-related issues with some of these backs - can someone remember which?
Edmund

My P25+ (that Kodak chip) suffers from the green/magenta colour casts across the frame even with medium format Hasselblad HC lenses, most noticeably with the 35mm. Easily corrected in Capture One with an LCC.  Works fine with shifts and tilts/swing if you use an LCC, which also corrects for vignetting as you get near the edge of the image circle.

[adam tracksler]

I found a decent deal on an aptus 22. It will need a battery, but that's not a huge deal...

Any opinions on them?

[Juanito]

I found a decent deal on an aptus 22. It will need a battery, but that's not a huge deal...

Any opinions on them?

That's exactly the back that I would recommend. Beautiful files. Cheap. Easy to work with. No need to shoot tethered. I had one for years; it was a faithful performer until it flew off of my camera and hit a concrete floor. You can do a lot with those 22 megapixels.

John

[minicoop1985]

I've owned both the Aptus 22 and a Hasselblad H3D. While the image quality on the Aptus 22 is absolutely outstanding when combined with the Mamiya 645 AFD line, has some serious drawbacks. Unless you're shooting tethered, there's the MAJOR issue of battery life. I got maybe an hour and a half out of a battery, whereas with my H3D I can shoot all day and not even get down to 50% (rechargeable). Then there's the cold weather battery life... I tried it out in 30 degree weather and recorded a grand total of two shots on a FRESHLY CHARGED battery before it quit partway through a third exposure. And they're quirky. All sorts of strange happenings and errors. I've found the H3D to be MUCH more reliable, though I will say lenses are WAY more expensive (I did get a FANTASTIC deal on my 150 3.2N though-$1k).

[minicoop1985]

I would also like to add that there are deals to be had on Hasselblads. I got mine including 150 3.2N for $3200. Also you can detach the back and use it on technical cameras, though it has to be tethered to power the back.

[adam tracksler]

I got the Aptus 22, I already have the 645 and an array of lenses... I can always buy batteries....I will post some test shots once it comes.

[minicoop1985]

I would HIGHLY recommend getting the bigger batteries if you can. I'm not sure they last longer in the cold, but they will last much longer in studio.

[adam tracksler]

Where is a good (and affordable) place to get them?

[Graham Welland]

There is nothing special about the Leaf batteries. You can use the larger Samsung SBL320 or equivalent batteries from camcorders. These are available pretty much anywhere.

[minicoop1985]

I got my batteries on either Amazon of Fleabay.

[adam tracksler]

Aptus 22 arrived last night, took a couple shots at the house this morning, can't wait to get to the studio today and try it out with some strobes.