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Author Topic: This does not look bad  (Read 3712 times)

fredjeang2

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Chris Sanderson

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 02:02:53 PM »

Interesting. But with three control wheels??!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=408cb2mfNzk
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 02:11:31 PM by Chris Sanderson »
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Christopher Sanderson
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bcooter

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2016, 05:12:04 PM »

Interesting. But with three control wheels??!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=408cb2mfNzk

That gear head looks problematic without some modification, but it doesn't cost much so . . .

I've bought very little Chinese equipment for heavy work, though every now and then I'm surprised.  For one of my RED 1's I bought a camtree shoulder mount.  In first inspection it seemed lightweight, though compared to REDs $3,000 mount, the Camtree version at 500 bucks was worth a test.  Bottom line.  It's great.   In a lot of work, it's held up, mounts quickly to sticks, and back to shoulder if time is limited and it's so good we're ordering more.

It's funny as I bump into a lot of people in the biz, I'll hear the only camera to use is an Arri, never a RED.   Then you see a video on bts and some huge movie running 4 or 5 arris' has two go down though the dp still raves about them.  Consequently Ridley Scott shot the Martian in 3d with Epics even gopro footage and it has huge post production on a very limited schedule and I heard no complaints on cameras.

This is a good read:

https://www.fxguide.com/featured/life-on-mars-the-vfx-of-the-martian/

BC

fredjeang2

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2016, 08:29:08 PM »

I don't see why people complain on Red.
I wonder if there is not a bit of snodism with Arri to be honest.
I' ve been working with both arriraw and red and I prefer the red workflow.

The most common complains I've heard on Red is that they do
Not provide a Lut system such as Arri but it makes no sense
Because Red implementation is Cineon. So there is nothing to complain
About.

Actually, stripping the all story in Fusion reveals how simple, clever
And standardized Red has implemented it's science.

I beleive more that hard core purists are die hard Arri users.

But people want RLF and later on something that looks like Arri workflow
Then they complain in the forum about the luts until poor Graeme comes
To explain over and over again the same thing...but the saga keeps going.
Pathetic.

Ps:actualy, there are some Red Luts non official made by users, if that's
What people really want. For example
RLF to rec709. I chalenge anyone to be able to picture any irregularity
Wirh those homemade luts. And I have a proof demostrated in a video
I made time ago:    (password is: Fred)
So if people want a more Arrish approach with Red, they is a way.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 09:33:00 PM by fredjeang2 »
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smthopr

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 05:18:42 AM »

A few thoughts:

Gear heads are not so useful with today's shooting styles,  but are really helpful when the dolly moves quickly.

Bad gear heads are really awful to use!

Red cameras make good results, but the live monitoring on set is not so good. On set, Arri is better for me:)
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Bruce Alan Greene
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smthopr

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2016, 05:20:24 AM »

And, I think the 3rd wheel is to be able to pan with the right hand, if you wish...
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Bruce Alan Greene
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fredjeang2

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2016, 04:31:18 AM »

Correct. The 3rd wheel allows to operate from a side or another.

As James pointed, this gear is cheap. That's the reason I shared it here.
I discovered it from a newsletter of a cine supplier located here.
But cheap and good are generaly source of hassles, isn't it?
How it performs and will it handle use and time? No idea.
But it could be interesting when budget is important.

About Arri,
IMO the very point is the implementation of the all system.
They were in cine before for long.
To be able to shoot Prores 4444444444444 or Arriraw is one of the strengh also.
Arriraw is really heavy. Not user friendly as Red, at least
For people profile in the middle end and definatly for me a big overkill hassle.

But Prores workflow is solid, fast and gives stunning results.
And Arri delivers Prores (and I beleive DNxHD also), Red does not.

What would be interesting is to put things into numbers.
For a similar performance, how much would it cost to shoot one or the other?

As a european, convinced that good stuff are europeans (cars, clothes, shoes etc...)
(And please don't tell me that a Camaro or a Corvette are good cars. They are muscles
On bad chassis with zero elegance...)
My heart would go to Arri. But...those europeans good stuff have always been elitist.
The US mentality is: we make not so good stuff (but very good) and/or hugliest, for much cheaper. So...

I saw a few Red one in ebay for about 4000...
Different target.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 02:37:25 PM by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 12:22:36 PM by fredjeang2 »
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bcooter

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 10:30:28 AM »


The US mentality is: we make not so good stuff (but very good) and/or hugliest, for much cheaper. So...

I saw a few Red one in ebay for about 4000...
Different target.


I can and cannot understand the comparison between camera, cars, Europe or America.

I mean Nobody will tell you a Corvette is a better car than an Audi R9 though just about anyone in America can buy a corvette and rip a hole in the universe, where for most people you have to be in the top 10% to own an R9.

Funny thing is in London I see R9's fairly often though nobody seems to notice.   I think the public believes they are fancy Audi TTs, though down the street from me in Hoxton  is a new Corvette Stingray that always has people standing around it looking and drooling.

As far as RED, I don't understand the film communities angst.  I know Arri's are good, but for a used Alexa your about $26,000 to make it work and it's a 23 lb camera.  You showed the older RED 1 at $4,000 u.s. but that's just a body.  With lens mounts, evf, a 5" lcd, V lock holder, A few V locks, (or goldlines) Rods cradle, arms, cables, ssd mount your into $12,000 to $14,000, a RED Rocket card, plus the $1,000 RED charges to register it and check it.

Still half the price of an older Alexa and though I have limited experience with Arri's from what I can see, a RED shot at 4k doesn't seem to have any more detail than an Arri at 2.2 or 2.7k so that's a wash.

I'm not selling REDs but I know coming from a still background and operating multiple cameras, they are the easiest to grade out of cine-x and match the footage if you're working multi-cam.   I think RED is a revelation in the film industry, from indies to big features.  It allows a small owner operator to own one or two, mine work reliably in all kinds of conditions with to date zero repairs. 

Anyway, people are pre disposed to use what they like, but I love my REDs and though they are older they still shoot to modern standards and I have little issues other than the semi slow start up time.

These are still one light daily clips of the first gig we shot with the R1s.  They still hold up.





But speaking of cars, I have a bmw in London, one of my cars in LA is a 400hp hot rod chevy and though the bmw is a much better car, the chevy is fun.  Sure it's probably made out of old beer cans and recycled plastic cups, but I like it and to me that's all that matters.

When my european crew comes over to LA, they all want to drive my Impala.  Yea at first they kind of bitch about ti, saying "American Plastic" but after a day, I can't get it back and they always take about 1/2" of rubber off the tires.

IMO

BC

P.S.  But Fred if you want a chevy at high end euro prices, here's you guy.  Johnathan Ward of ICON can't make anything under $200,000 usually more and this old Caprice has a pretty cool design them.  They call it "get the f*&c out of my lane".  I kind of like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HstJWZ8SPw

Chris Sanderson

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2016, 10:57:08 AM »

....  Johnathan Ward of ICON can't make anything under $200,000 usually more and this old Caprice has a pretty cool design them.  They call it "get the f*&c out of my lane".  I kind of like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HstJWZ8SPw

Smiling and drooling at the same time! This I have to share. Thank-you James!
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Christopher Sanderson
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bcooter

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2016, 11:40:52 AM »

Smiling and drooling at the same time! This I have to share. Thank-you James!

My pleasure

« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 07:32:28 AM by bcooter »
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fredjeang2

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2016, 04:14:28 PM »

Lol

Of course James, as an arrogant and posh european, I was
Kidding on US products.
It was to ad a bit of humor on my boring topic.

Altough on cars...(pic below)

Ps: agree with you. Who cares about the pedigree-prestige if the
Wheels is fun to drive, wich is the most important.

Talking about fun to drive, try the Alfa Romeo 4c

And put it in sport mode. It cancels all helps and hard
To drive well without training. It's an amazing machine.
Best bang for the buck. Like driving a real competition car
Without braking the bank.

Are you going to the F1 grand prix in Texas this year?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 04:35:14 PM by fredjeang2 »
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bcooter

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2016, 05:22:48 AM »

Lol

It was to ad a bit of humor on my boring topic.

Altough on cars...(pic below)

Ps: agree with you. Who cares about the pedigree-prestige if the
Wheels is fun to drive, wich is the most important.

Talking about fun to drive, try the Alfa Romeo 4c
And put it in sport mode. It cancels all helps and hard
To drive well without training. It's an amazing machine.
Best bang for the buck. Like driving a real competition car
Without braking the bank.

Are you going to the F1 grand prix in Texas this year?

I use to follow F1 religiously, until the computers and rooms of 100/200 techs were monitoring everything, telling the driver what to do.

Kind of like shooting tethered, with 200 clients and monitors.

Also F1 has become the Lewis and Nico show and I dunno I don't find the process that interesting anymore.

They're too micro managed, but I would like to go to the Austin Track, maybe on a superbike weekend, or sports cars.  Austin is a blast, but kind of small so unless you book a year in advanced I might as well sleep in our Dallas studio and just get up early and drive.

_______________

I love the look of Italian cars, owned two alfas, spent a lot of time in the shop, but I agree nothing is prettier than Italian design.

BC

PS love the smart car doing the wheelstand.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 05:11:36 PM by bcooter »
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fredjeang2

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Re: This does not look bad
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2016, 03:16:38 AM »

Agree. F1 has become a sort of Nasa mission control with gazillion of techs working live in the shade and very little about the drivers talents.
All that mess came when they prohibited testings in order to make F1 costs lower wich results in higher costs in simulations...

Alonso and Hamilton, the best current drivers on grid, pointed several times that they don't have fun anymore because it's all about saving fuel, saving tyres and today's cars are slow and not chalenging to drive.
But it's about to change:

Bernie sold F1 to a US company (Liberty) and tomorow they might control the all circus. Big news! That could bring a different philosophy as the US mentality tends to promote the show and not so much the tech, like in indy car. Let's see if it brings fresh air and different management and how they will deal with the arrogant FIA.
Hass came into F1 as an "hidden" Ferrari second team but with the US style in mind: we can build a good car with low cost solutions. And they do it well considering it is their first year.

Next year also the regulations change for best. Cars will be faster, more chalenging to drive and noisier. Engine makers will be allowed to full dev, not like today.
And the boring Nico / Lewis show might come to an end because Red Bull is pushing, Honda is really progressing now so we might see more battles and equality on grid. Or at least it is what expected...

I owned Alfa too. In the past, they had good designs and engines, but corrosion was a big deal (mine had electric hassles all the time) and most of those Alfas have been transmutated into oxyd dust. But it seems that they cured their lack of robustness nowdays.
The 4c is regarded as the closest as you can get from a supercar like Ferrari but for 50.000 instead of 200.000. Not bad!
Basicaly it is a raw race car "old style" with zero comfort and luxury. That's how they saved cost.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TQho90rkjXo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L3yyjoRWwGg


Cheers.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 03:28:32 AM by fredjeang2 »
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