Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: colour correction  (Read 4731 times)

jclacherty

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
colour correction
« on: June 22, 2006, 04:50:48 am »

Hi,

I've recently bought a film scanner and will be scanning in the photos from my wedding to make an album for my wife.  Figured after 9 years it's probably time :-)

Anyway, the film is colour negative film which can be/is a pain when it comes to getting the colours right.  I've got an eye one spectro, and I've got access to my wifes wedding dress (and probably a bridesmaid dress).  Is it possible to take a reading of something with the spectro and automate the colour correction somehow?  I realise this won't account for the temperature of the light at the time but I figured it's a pretty good start.

Justin.
Logged

Jonathan Wienke

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5829
    • http://visual-vacations.com/
colour correction
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 08:32:35 am »

This may not be possible, but if you can shoot a scanner profiling target with the same film and under the same lighting as the wedding, you can make a profile specific to your film and scanner that will save you an enormous amount of color correction time. You'll need a separate profile for each film and lighting combination.
Logged

jclacherty

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
colour correction
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 09:41:05 am »

Quote
This may not be possible, but if you can shoot a scanner profiling target with the same film...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Unfortunately I'm not sure which film it is (or if it's even still available).
Logged

David White

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
    • http://
colour correction
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2006, 03:38:57 pm »

SilverFast Ai (not sure about the other versions) has NegaFix which will get you pretty close.  They have 120+ profiles for all kinds of negative films.

There should be something along the edge of the negatives that will tell you what type of film it is.
Logged
David White

jclacherty

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
colour correction
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2006, 06:07:31 pm »

Quote
There should be something along the edge of the negatives that will tell you what type of film it is.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68897\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, last time I looked I couldn't find what it was.  It's a Fuji non-professional film.  At the time I was in the process of moving house so didn't get much time to follow it up.  I'll take another look at it and download the trial of Silverfast.

Justin.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
colour correction
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2006, 07:38:53 pm »

Quote
Hi,

I've recently bought a film scanner and will be scanning in the photos from my wedding to make an album for my wife.  Figured after 9 years it's probably time :-)

Anyway, the film is colour negative film which can be/is a pain when it comes to getting the colours right.  I've got an eye one spectro, and I've got access to my wifes wedding dress (and probably a bridesmaid dress).  Is it possible to take a reading of something with the spectro and automate the colour correction somehow?  I realise this won't account for the temperature of the light at the time but I figured it's a pretty good start.

Justin.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I prepared two extensive articles about scanning negatives for this website; you may find some helpful information there.

[a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/silverfast-scanning.shtml]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial...-scanning.shtml[/url]

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/ndq.shtml

There are no profiling targets for colour negative films; film scanners cannot be profiled for transparent negative media as they can be for positive transparencies. I've discussed this problem with several of the foremost gurus in colour management and scanner profiling. I have found the most practical option is to buy Silverfast and use its Negafix module to simulate the effect of profiling your scanner (they developed Negafix to deal with the profiling problem through the back door). Silverfast has a learning curve, but the above referenced material can help speed you through this quirky but highly effective application. You do not need to know the name of the film to use Negafix. By trial and error looking at the monitor image you can try one film combo (manufacturer, type, speed) after another until you hit on one that gives you the most accurate looking conversion you are likely to get at the stage of the process, then stick with it. Each film choice can also be fine-tuned in Negafix.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

jclacherty

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
colour correction
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 01:26:43 am »

Quote
I prepared two extensive articles about scanning negatives for this website; you may find some helpful information there.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial...-scanning.shtml

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/ndq.shtml
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=68929\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Mark.  I remember reading one of those when it came out.  Forgot about it though as at the time I didn't have a film scanner.  I'll revisit it I think.

I downloaded Silverfast when I first got the scanner but didn't have much time to play with it before moving.  I'll try again.  First impressions were that it was difficult to use, but that's just a learning curve.

The other thing is to work out which version of Silverfast to get...

Seems silly to me that you can't use a spectro which is designed to read colour to read the colour of an item in the shot, then match it.  Hmm...maybe there's a product in that...

Justin.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
colour correction
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 07:19:08 am »

Justin, three points:

(1) To use Silverfast you need to buy the version that is specified for your scanner. Unlike Vuescan, Silverfast is customized to each scanner model and the price of software varies considerably from one scanner model to the next. I wouldn't want to speculate about why, but that is how it is. Once investing in something like Silverfast, I believe it is worthwhile buying Ai 6 Studio - this is the full-featured version.

(2) As for using a spectro to read colour and create profiles, recall that we're dealing in this case with colour negative film. The raw data the scanner reads is reversed colours. Hence you would need an accurate IT8 target made up of patches of reversed colours for profiling such a scanner to interpret and reverse negative film accurately. There would need to be a very large number of IT8 targets (Negafix alone has well over one hundred choices) to faithfully portray the reversal colours of each film, because the reversal colours differ amongst manufacturers, and within manufacturers each film type and film speed. I suppose firms have judged that the trouble and likely sales volume for each target just isn't worthwhile, hence the Negafix fix in Silverfast and a more limited similar option in Vuescan.

(3) Silverfast is a needlessly complexified piece of software with a horrible user interface, arcane nomenclature and very poor quality documentation. All that said, from a technical, results-oriented perspective it is still the best game in town for scanning negatives, their e-mail tech support is responsive and helpful and once mastered it is actually quite routine and easy to use.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

jclacherty

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
colour correction
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2006, 02:12:08 am »

Quote
(1) To use Silverfast you need to buy the version that is specified for your scanner... I believe it is worthwhile buying Ai 6 Studio - this is the full-featured version.

Thanks, I've got a Minolta 5400 II.  Looks like Ai 6 Studio it is.

Quote
(2) As for using a spectro to read colour and create profiles, recall that we're dealing in this case with colour negative film...

Yes, I'm aware that you'd need to profile each film as their reversal properties are different.  I guess I was assuming that the colour differences were linear.  From the sounds of it I might be mistaken with that.

Quote
(3) Silverfast is a needlessly complexified piece of software with a horrible user interface...results-oriented perspective it is still the best game in town for scanning negatives...

Cool.  I hate unnecessarily complex user interfaces, but if it's the best there is results wise then I guess I'll just have to invest the time.
Logged

Gregory

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
    • http://www.gregory.hk
colour correction
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2006, 06:25:01 am »

Quote
Cool.  I hate unnecessarily complex user interfaces
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
it's not as bad as it seems. once you understand what you're doing, most of the SilverFast operations are quite quick. I've been using it for several years ;-)

the biggest problem may not be with the software as much as with the scanner. I have a Nikon Coolscan 4000ED and the biggest impediment to efficient scanning of negatives is the scanner's inability to accurately determine the edge of the image frames for automatic batch scanning. I even purchased the roll adapter and that was a complete waste of money. if on the other hand I was scanning positive film, batch scanning would be a snap.

if you have a lot of images to scan, my current ideal would be to buy the slide adapter rather than the roll adapter, frame all of my negatives (yes, I said 'frame' the 'negatives') and then scan them via the adapter. I would then be able to efficiently batch scan my negatives with minimal frame delineation problems.

btw, SilverFast is *very* powerful. I'd be very happy to see at least one of its functions in Aperture; eg, GANE (Grain and Noise Elimination) did wonders for my noisy 350D ≥ASA800 images.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 06:26:31 am by Gregory »
Logged
Gregory's Blog: [url=http://www.gregory.
Pages: [1]   Go Up