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Author Topic: Canon 5D Mk4 announced  (Read 32257 times)

Zorki5

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2016, 01:40:53 pm »

Yes, looks like a solid update. A nice improvement an existing workhorse. A jack of all trades!

One always wishes for more but you kind of know that what you are getting is an incremental improvement. The dual pixel processing was a surprise.

I currently own the 5D3 and A7R2. The improved 5D4 sensor will be welcomed.

A worthwhile update, no doubt.

But a "jack of all trades"? Some future 5Dmk7 may become one, if by that time Canon drops their Cinema line, of which they are currently so protective. Or a Magic Lantern FW becomes widely available for 5D's, enabling decent movie formats and possibly implementing 4k with supersampling and w/o that horrendous crop... On Nikon ups their game in video dept to the point Canon would have to un-cripple their non-Cinema FF offerings.

One of the reasons my 5Dmk2 is now collecting dust is that, after Sony a6000, I cannot stand its horrible AF (mainly focus/recompose) anymore. Yeah, it was an oh-so-smart move, to cripple 5Dmk2 to "protect" their 1D series, and cripple Ms to protect their DSLRs... Did they make me buy 1D (for AF) or crop DSLR (for size/weight)? Nope, they made me switch.

Canon obviously have some other people in mind, not me, when they decide on feature sets of their products. OK, fair enough, who am I to question their ways? Net result though is that I for one watch new Canon offerings as if they were in some parallel universe. Interesting, yes, but completely irrelevant.

shadowblade noted that there weren't much interest... Well, that (^^^) was why; at least for me.
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NancyP

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2016, 02:35:12 pm »

Depending on the increase in dynamic range, I could have a bit of GAS for this. What I really need is a brain upgrade.
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lowep

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2016, 09:36:26 pm »

I thought all the octogenarians were still using Leica film rangefinders, not Sony mirrorless...

wrong! octogenerians are using Sony mirrorless (who else can afford FE lenses and needs in body stabilization) while millenials are as crazy about Leica film rangefinders as baby boomers were about Ford Falcons
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2016, 11:50:42 pm »

wrong! octogenerians are using Sony mirrorless (who else can afford FE lenses and needs in body stabilization) while millenials are as crazy about Leica film rangefinders as baby boomers were about Ford Falcons

The closest most octogenarians get to a camera is a colonoscopy.

On second thoughts, that's actually pretty close...
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eronald

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2016, 04:59:14 pm »

The closest most octogenarians get to a camera is a colonoscopy.

On second thoughts, that's actually pretty close...

I think this is a case where one is free to tell someone that he is speaking with his ...

Edmund
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Rhossydd

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2016, 09:19:46 am »

Now, is this capability going to be available in raw converters other than CPP?
Well Adobe say they're working on it http://www.cnet.com/news/adobe-to-support-dual-pixel-raw-photo-format-in-canon-5d-mark-iv/
Not sure I'd bet when it might actually arrive or how well it will work first time though.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2016, 09:55:57 am »

Well Adobe say they're working on it http://www.cnet.com/news/adobe-to-support-dual-pixel-raw-photo-format-in-canon-5d-mark-iv/

Very nice, it's also an incentive for Capture One to add deconvolution sharpening (if that's what's used) to it's capabilities, and employ that for this new feature.

Quote
Not sure I'd bet when it might actually arrive or how well it will work first time though.

I'd assume that would require Adobe to use a better Deconvolution quality than what's been used in the Details panel so far, so it may take a few iterations to get it right (like initially abysmal Fuji Xtrans, and relatively poor Pentax multishot Raws).

At least Canon has shown what is possible with Dual pixels (beyond 'Real time' Phase Focus in Video and Live View), now competition has a goal to work towards or surpass if possible. Healthy competition is good for innovation.

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. The street example in this Swedish article demonstrates a significant correction range for refocusing.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:56:24 am by BartvanderWolf »
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scyth

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2016, 10:21:41 am »

Well Adobe say they're working on it http://www.cnet.com/news/adobe-to-support-dual-pixel-raw-photo-format-in-canon-5d-mark-iv/
Not sure I'd bet when it might actually arrive or how well it will work first time though.

they have to change the DNG standard for that... because in Adobe's world : raw - (using Adobe's software) - > dng -> ACR/LR must be exactly the same as raw -> ACR/LR ... or meanwhile they can use crippled method with linear DNGs, just like was the situation with Panasonic optics correction data in RW2 raw file... for quite some time RW2 -> DNG was only possible with linear (= demosaicked) DNGs... until Adobe updated DNG standard to support relevant tags.
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scyth

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2016, 10:23:19 am »

now competition

Adobe hardly consider DPP as a competition for LR ... no DAM for example
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2016, 12:04:22 pm »

Adobe hardly consider DPP as a competition for LR ... no DAM for example

Correct, and it shows in Raw conversion image quality. Most people value the DPP image quality and colors, although the postprocessing possibilities of LR/ACR are more extensive. But that's more about postprocessing than image quality.

Cheers,
Bart
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NancyP

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2016, 03:17:42 pm »

The closest most octogenarians get to a camera is ... their phone! Phones are much more pleasant than colonoscopies.
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2016, 07:54:31 am »

The closest most octogenarians get to a camera is ... their phone! Phones are much more pleasant than colonoscopies.

Many of my 80-year-old patients don't have smartphones. The majority are also either too demented to use a camera, lack the eyesight to use one, require both hands on a walking frame, are too arthritic to press the buttons or are so shaky they struggle with a spoon, let alone a camera.
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NancyP

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2016, 12:15:54 pm »

Well, there's one of the major health care issues of the day - health disparity related to income disparity. The seniors who are healthy at age 60 and who use modern tech (generally top quintile of income, or second quintile and savvy) are the ones that will live to over 80 and be able to use autofocus phone cams. My social circle has lots of vigorous older people. My neighbor is a 99 year old musician. My camera club members' average age is 55 to 60. Skewed sample! General population is as you describe, frail or with bad eyesight at age 80.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2016, 01:10:41 pm »

At least Canon has shown what is possible with Dual pixels (beyond 'Real time' Phase Focus in Video and Live View),
Looking at what DPReview have achieved with it https://www.dpreview.com/news/1177471835/testing-image-microadjust-on-the-canon-5d-mark-iv it's not worth worrying about.
"However, the degree of correction we're seeing is so small that we wonder whether it's worth the additional effort "

Given the extra overheads and penalties of bigger files sizes with all the penalties incurred with that and the potential problems with file compatibility, it seems a bit of a non-feature to me.
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digitaldog

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2016, 03:49:51 pm »

Looking at what DPReview have achieved with it https://www.dpreview.com/news/1177471835/testing-image-microadjust-on-the-canon-5d-mark-iv it's not worth worrying about.
It's a joke! Not a huge fan but DPR did some interesting testing to reveal three options where one was acceptable and two unacceptable. Want Bumps for this, upgrading from a 5DMII, less bumpy  ;D .
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David Anderson

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2016, 04:17:29 pm »

Wow, the internet is aglow with crap about 5DIV video.
Honestly, I'm more interested in Trumps opinion on Mexican hair care products than video.

What's it like for photos folks ?
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2016, 05:09:45 pm »

I don't get all the complaints, apart from the fact every Canon 5D release has the same effect. It seems like a decent upgrade, some solid new features and a bit of innovation too. I will reserve judgement till later - lets see how the Dynamic Range pans out.
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digitaldog

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2016, 08:08:05 pm »

Now this may not be a joke (thanks to Illiah for brining this to my attention):
http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/Canon-dual-pixel-technology
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Zorki5

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2016, 08:33:30 pm »

Now this may not be a joke (thanks to Illiah for brining this to my attention):
http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/Canon-dual-pixel-technology

Interesting article, thanks for the link. There may indeed be the way to gain additional stop in hightlights. That said, it seems to be Canon themselves who's blowing them; quote from the article:

Quote
PS Low ISO raw files from other recent Canon camera models do not reach the maximum number, 16383, possible with 14-bit data; Canon 5D Mark IV does. So, the main subframe may be formed by adding the data numbers from both subpixels and clipping the result to 16383, while the auxiliary subframe contains the data for only one set of subpixels, and at base ISO it seems to be "full-well limited".

That is, those channels/subframes originally have good, non-saturated/unclipped data. Then, instead of averaging them, they add them (thus blowing some highlights) and clip, making recovery of the second channel (the one not stored in the RAW) impossible. Yes, still having at least one of the original channels is very nice, but why not store the original frame/channel data?

P.S. Canon should also get credit for not calling 5Dmk4 a "60-megapixel camera" as at least one other company we all know would  ;)
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Zorki5

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Re: Canon 5D Mk4 announced
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2016, 08:42:40 pm »

why not store the original frame/channel data?

BTW, one of the reasons I can think of myself is maintaining better compatibility with existing RAW converters. After all, if they keep the range <black-level>..16,383, existing converters can basically ignore the subframe and just treat the main frame as the only one, so required changes for converters to be able to somehow process dual-pixel RAW files would be absolutely minimal.

Then again, that seems to be a heavy price to pay for missed opportunities...
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