Splash Photography? Advice

[JoeKitchen]

So I have some free time this week and Fotocare is running a special on the Pro8s this month. 

Rent the pack and get two heads for free, and since they close on weekends in August, their weekend length (which is a one day rate) runs from Thursday until Monday. 

Pretty freaking awesome!   

So I just reserved three Pro8 2400 packs, 4 heads and one twin, and plan on having three days of splashes. 

(Yes, I know the Scoros would be better, but for a personal project without a budget, these should be good.  Also, all of my modifiers are Profoto, so if I went the Scoros route, I would need to rent all the modifiers too.)

I have a few shots that I thinking of and planning out. 

Any overall advice? 

[DrakeJ]

Any overall advice?

Max power on the Pro8a yields about 1/500s t0.1 (2400Ws version), I would go down at least 2-3 stops from max power to keep t0.1 durations low enough to freeze liquid splashes.

[Chris Barrett]

The big trick is triggering.  I've never done this before, but back in my 20's I worked at Helix and set up a local shooter with an infrared beam trigger.  Do you have a rig for that?

[JoeKitchen]

The big trick is triggering.  I've never done this before, but back in my 20's I worked at Helix and set up a local shooter with an infrared beam trigger.  Do you have a rig for that?

I do not have one of those.  I would like to one, but not sure if I can get my place dark enough for it to work correctly. 

I assume you need to work on Bulb, open the shutter, drop the object, then close the shutter after the flash.  I feel that my place would be too bright for that to work. 

[bcooter]

I do not have one of those.  I would like to one, but not sure if I can get my place dark enough for it to work correctly. 

I assume you need to work on Bulb, open the shutter, drop the object, then close the shutter after the flash.  I feel that my place would be too bright for that to work.

I don't know what market your in, but you can rent or buy duvetyne black from any film house or party rental.   4 c stands, sand bags, some home depot conduit and a black sided foamcore for the top and you have a blacked out space.   http://www.csirentals.com/12x12-black-duvetine/

Speaking of splashes, we were working on the Sony movie lot and the stage next to us was being prepped for a splash for some tentpole movie like Spiderman.  Most of the stages at Sony have false floors and pools underneath.    They were lifting a 1,000 lb sheet of metal to drop about 40 ft. into the pool to effect the splash.   I don't know why 40 ft. and 1,000 pounds but hey, if you have the budget.

BC

[BobShaw]

Photigy.com run courses and have videos. You need really fast flash. Speedlites can be used inside modifiers or something like a Quadra A head if you can't afford the top end.

Also you would probably get betters answers in the Lighting section than Medium Format.

[Brent Daniels]

With a proper laser trigger set-up such as the ones from the now defunct Capture Group you can do splashes in a not pure black out "bulb" situation. This can be a great help as it is nice to be able to actually see what you are doing in dropping things into tanks or throwing liquids. I also prefer the consistency of laser triggering to trying to fire the camera by finger & eye that some prefer.

The trick is to use a Hasselblad H camera , or maybe Phase with LS lens. Highest shutter speed possible to kill off the not total black out ambient working light. The laser trips the camera which trips the lights. It takes a bit to work out all the silly delays (about 3 things) build into cameras now days (milli seconds count) and using a Pocket Wizzard pre-trigger cable which puts the camera into the half pushed down shutter button mode. Hard wiring the sync to the packs rather than slaves of any sort also make a difference.

With both Profoto or Scorros use bi-tube heads to 2 packs so you up power to head with higher speed. Also you may not want different flash durations through your set so with Profoto that means keeping all the power settings the same. With Scorros you can just adjust the packs to the same flash duration.

Rolls of plastic are your best friend.

Soon I will be selling a Capture Group laser & sound trigger kit on ebay.

[gmfotografie]

those should be great - i will buy this trigger soon.
http://miops.com

will also shoot some splashes - i think you need a least 1/7000 flash duration .. will realize this with my move 1200L

[bcooter]

those should be great - i will buy this trigger soon.
http://miops.com

will also shoot some splashes - i think you need a least 1/7000 flash duration .. will realize this with my move 1200L

Well Joe, I think a few speed lights and the miops gizmo looks like the trick.

I'm not wild about smart phone setups but his images are stunning, especially the girl with all the colored paint.

BC

[gmfotografie]

of course with speedlights you will get also fast flash duration - but if you need lightformers or working with mod light it will be difficult...for me - broncolo scoro does the best job when it comes to fast flash duration.
look a karl taylor or manuel mittelpunkt but there are also others who does this quite well.

[ben730]

Joe
I have never used triggers for splashes. If your not awkward, you get the timing after some tries (if you have more than one).
For most splashes 1/4000 is enough.
Use a camera with winder that you can shoot in a flow.
You need a huge quantity of pictures. The end product is normally a Photoshop-composition of several pictures......
Normally soft light (soft box, white acrylic) and some black cardboard give good results.
Regards,
Ben

[JoeKitchen]

Thanks all, I'll be putting this advice to the test today. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Thanks all, I'll be putting this advice to the test today.

Hi Joe,

Looking forward to the results. Although late with my advice, I assume you are doing close-up shots (which will require additional light due to the Bellows factor, a factor 4x at 1:1 magnification). In that case, I'd use a small reflector on the flash-heads (+barndoors) and a translucent pane close to the spot where you're shooting. That will give a large and diffuse illumination and you'll lose less light that is not used for exposure.

Splashes are fun, I've done them when shooting film already (more failed shots than successful ones, digital helps to cull to the keepers). But for the most wondrous effects, colored gels and multiple drops with a timer, valves, and trigger are inevitable. That allows to reproduce results to a large degree, and create images with 1, 2, or 3 drop collisions easily (examples on this page).

Cheers,
Bart

[JoeKitchen]

Great learning experience this weekend, and splashes are much more complicated then I thought.  Catching an object falling or splashing takes some practice. 

I think I got 4 nice shots, maybe a couple more, but we will see after retouching, which I don't have time for until this coming holiday weekend. 

I will say that every liquid but water was easy to work with. Water though gave me problems; it moves very fast and I did get a little motion blur in every image with water. 

Would the Broncolor Scoros do better here? 

I did have a binder added to my insurance's rental policy and may want to try this again.  If the Scoros are better, I may want to rent those next. 

PS. Plastic is very much your friend here; without it, I would be living in a sour milk & cream dwelling right now. 

[JoeKitchen]

Are speedrings universal insofar as the hole placement and distance?  Could I mount my Profoto boxes on a Broncolor speedring? 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

PS. Plastic is very much your friend here; without it, I would be living in a sour milk & cream dwelling right now.

Yes, things get pretty messy petty fast. I also used milk in the past and one can get creative with food colorants or ink, but more viscous liquids can be easier to handle, although their splash patterns may be simpler. The drops can be dropped on a solid surface, or in a shallow dish with liquid. Timing by hand is difficult, but occasionally it works.

Cheers,
Bart

[JoeKitchen]

Thanks Bart.  I did read the article you posted it looks like some interesting stuff. 

I was doing larger splashes though, throwing liquids onto bottles. 

One thing that really surprised me was I needed to smack water balloons against a liquor bottle and knew it would work better if the bottle was sideways.  So I epoxied a 5/8 nut on the bottom of the bottle, screwed it into a 5/8 screw rod and clamped that in the knuckle of a c-stand.  I was pretty certain eventually the epoxy would give since it is so hard to glue anything to glass.  We pelted that bottle with water balloons and nothing. 

JB Weld! I am now certain you can permanently bond any material to any other material with that stuff. 

[ben730]

I will say that every liquid but water was easy to work with. Water though gave me problems; it moves very fast and I did get a little motion blur in every image with water. 

Would the Broncolor Scoros do better here? 

I did have a binder added to my insurance's rental policy and may want to try this again.  If the Scoros are better, I may want to rent those next. 

I don't have Scoros (I spent all my money for my bicycle, as you know), but my Grafits do the job.
As far as I know do the Profotos not show the flash duration. The Grafits have 1/7000s t 0.1, and thats enough.

[JoeKitchen]

I don't have Scoros (I spent all my money for my bicycle, as you know), but my Grafits do the job.
As far as I know do the Profotos not show the flash duration. The Grafits have 1/7000s t 0.1, and thats enough.

The Pro8s do not give the flash duration on the pack; probably buried somewhere in the manual. 

I spent some time looking at the Scoros when I returned the rental and feel that I really should have rented them.  (Next time, maybe this weekend?)

With the Scoros, you can adjust the flash duration independent of the power.  Yes, you do have less control with the higher power settings and the color will be effected a bit, but you can make it so all of the flashes are fast and the same exact speed. 

With the product shots I was doing, I was using 4 or 5 heads, so having the flashes the same speed was more important then I had thought. 

[ben730]

With the Scoros, you can adjust the flash duration independent of the power.  Yes, you do have less control with the higher power settings and the color will be effected a bit, but you can make it so all of the flashes are fast and the same exact speed. 

With the product shots I was doing, I was using 4 or 5 heads, so having the flashes the same speed was more important then I had thought.

The same can the Grafit A4. Only the fastest flash is 1/7000s, the Scoros have 1/12000s.
...and the 3rd Lamp isn't fully independant.
But you can get the Grafits a lot cheaper!