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Author Topic: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film  (Read 8104 times)

feppe

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2016, 11:27:48 am »

Just going to throw it out there... but have you tried an E-M1?  They can be had for super cheap right now...and the mkII is just around the corner.  It is honestly a completely different feel from the E-M5 cameras.  Working with it and the focusing aids might be a lot easier.  In fact, when set up right, the E-M1 outshines any mirrored camera when it comes to portrait works.  The IBIS, SOVF mode, 1/320 flash sync, hi-refresh rate mode combined with the quick magnification from the focus ring make hand held portrait work way too enjoyable.  I've shot tack sharp eyelashes at 1/60th ambient, no flash, at the equivalent of 300mm.  I can barely handhold my Canon 5DmkII at 105mm and get that sharp of an image.

Yes, I am very biased to the E-M1.  My current portrait bag consists of two E-M1 bodies and a Hasselblad H1.

I haven't tried the E-M1, but I am reconsidering M43 as a studio tool so I'll do research on it. The control layout looks not as cramped as it is on E-M5, any notes about that?

I'm well set on the lenses: I have nothing short of magical portrait lens in the 57mm Hexanon, and have a Daguerreotype from Lomography arriving soon, and wide range of great primes already in my bag.

Panasonic GX8 seems to have very good manual focus aids, so that would be another option. Looks like Panny finally managed to put stabilization in the body, so that advantage Olympus had is gone.

E-M1 Mk II is rumored to have dual card slots, which would address one of M43's shortcomings, no matter how unlikely it is for a card to fail (has happened to me).

lowep's post earlier does raise a good point: going from M43 to APS-C is not a big difference, and I know it having gone the other direction once. DXO and DPReview's comparisons confirm this from IQ perspective.

Local Calumet has Sony's cameras on rent, so I'll probably test them out to see what benefit FF offers these days on IQ and usability in the real world.

scyth

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2016, 11:54:20 am »

I haven't tried the E-M1, but I am reconsidering M43 as a studio tool so I'll do research on it. The control layout looks not as cramped as it is on E-M5, any notes about that?

I owned Е-М1 before and ergonomics was good (this is subjective of course) - I'd much prefer to have A7R2 innards in E-M1 body vs A7R2 own body...  one the features that I liked is that you can define custom configurations for P, A, S, M and other selections on the mode dial :-)... with A7R2 having only C1 & C2 custom options on the mode dial it feels almost like consumer entry level camera.

but at this moment I'd wait till E-M1 mark II which shall have newer 20mp sensor, unless you have budget constrains... I bet it shall have dual slots and AF selection joystick
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MattBurt

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2016, 12:22:37 pm »

If you aren't fully committed to mirrorless the Pentax K-1 might work for you. Same sensor as Nikon FF, lots of good features, and a lot less money.
The Pentax FA 77/1.8 is a great portrait lens as are the Pentax 85/1.4 or 1.8 but the latter two are harder to find.
I've also recently converted a couple of old Leitz lenses (Summicron 50/2, Elmarit 135/2.8) to K mount and they also do well on this body although it's fully manual with those converted lenses. Tons of nice legacy glass out there too if you like that kind of thing.

Also, regardless of the body, people seem to like the Samyang 85/1.4 which comes in several mounts including Pentax and Nikon.
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feppe

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2016, 04:09:24 pm »

If you aren't fully committed to mirrorless the Pentax K-1 might work for you. Same sensor as Nikon FF, lots of good features, and a lot less money.
The Pentax FA 77/1.8 is a great portrait lens as are the Pentax 85/1.4 or 1.8 but the latter two are harder to find.
I've also recently converted a couple of old Leitz lenses (Summicron 50/2, Elmarit 135/2.8) to K mount and they also do well on this body although it's fully manual with those converted lenses. Tons of nice legacy glass out there too if you like that kind of thing.

Also, regardless of the body, people seem to like the Samyang 85/1.4 which comes in several mounts including Pentax and Nikon.

I actually have a lot of interest and fondness for it, and Pentaxes (and Ricohs) in general. I originally poo-pooed it due to it having the what I consider a vestigial mirror, but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.

I have the truly amazing and criminally underrated Ricoh GR, which has the best UI in any digital camera I've used, and I've heard Pentax cameras have similar UIs, being made by the same company and all.

Any good 100-135mm fast portrait lenses out there? I see there's a Samyang 135mm f/2, not familiar with the brand.

Camerajim

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2016, 04:45:37 pm »

If you already have some m43 glass, you might want to wait and see what the new E-M1 II will bring next month. For the work you mention, the E-M1 can already do quite well. I've been shooting landscapes, portraits and studio product work with it for 2-1/2 years. My clients like the output and I like that I can do a few unique things with it.

Nobody has yet matched the Live Composite mode and there is the automated focus stacking, which turned out to be more useful than I expected. Olympus is doing some great stuff on the firmware front.

I recently picked up a Pen F, which upped the ante a little on resolution and which brings a whole new handling style. I expect it will become my casual travel camera, even after I pick up an E-M1 II. Limited though it is, its hi-res mode produces unmatched color and texture results. No moire. Virtually no noise. At 50mp. Reportedly, the new E-M1 II will add handheld shots to hi-res, which will make it more suitable for field use.

At the least, I think it's worth waiting to see what develops.
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MattBurt

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2016, 05:05:18 pm »

I actually have a lot of interest and fondness for it, and Pentaxes (and Ricohs) in general. I originally poo-pooed it due to it having the what I consider a vestigial mirror, but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.

I have the truly amazing and criminally underrated Ricoh GR, which has the best UI in any digital camera I've used, and I've heard Pentax cameras have similar UIs, being made by the same company and all.

Any good 100-135mm fast portrait lenses out there? I see there's a Samyang 135mm f/2, not familiar with the brand.

I've heard many good things about the GR. It will be interesting to see what the next update to those looks like (assuming there will be one).

Samyang is a Korean (I think) lens company known for low cost but good value lenses. Until recently they were only manual focus but some new AF lenses are being released now too. They are also sold under the brands Rokinon and Bower. I have a couple of Rokinon lenses, a APS-C 8mm fisheye and a FF 14mm UWA and they are both very nice, especially considering the price.

A drawback of Pentax is there are fewer modern lenses available than for Canikon but they seem to be making some headway on that front lately.
There is a Pentax 100/2.8 macro in production that people like but my lenses in that range are all legacy lenses. The Elmarit 135/2.8 and also a Sears 135/2.8 (that may be a re-branded Tokina) fit the bill and the Sears has auto aperture. It's also not as sharp but for $40 on eBay I'm not going to complain. I also have a Pentax 100mm macro, the old manual f/4 version which is very sharp.
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lowep

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2016, 05:25:46 pm »

but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.

Intriguing comment... please elaborate
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scyth

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2016, 05:35:02 pm »

Intriguing comment... please elaborate
apparently he wants small system and FF lenses once you want bright + matching 50+mp sensels + certain focal range are not small... a legit POV by some people... while some people (like me) value the "mirrorless" part, not the size/weight part  = EFCS/no shutter shock + EVF + etc... I do not mind a big camera, for as long as it is still dSLM
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feppe

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2016, 05:59:50 pm »

If you already have some m43 glass, you might want to wait and see what the new E-M1 II will bring next month. For the work you mention, the E-M1 can already do quite well. I've been shooting landscapes, portraits and studio product work with it for 2-1/2 years. My clients like the output and I like that I can do a few unique things with it.

Nobody has yet matched the Live Composite mode and there is the automated focus stacking, which turned out to be more useful than I expected. Olympus is doing some great stuff on the firmware front.

I recently picked up a Pen F, which upped the ante a little on resolution and which brings a whole new handling style. I expect it will become my casual travel camera, even after I pick up an E-M1 II. Limited though it is, its hi-res mode produces unmatched color and texture results. No moire. Virtually no noise. At 50mp. Reportedly, the new E-M1 II will add handheld shots to hi-res, which will make it more suitable for field use.

At the least, I think it's worth waiting to see what develops.

Yeah, I'll definitely take a close look at the E-M1.

The live preview is heaven when doing low light photography, hadn't heard of Live Composite until now.

I've heard many good things about the GR. It will be interesting to see what the next update to those looks like (assuming there will be one).

Samyang is a Korean (I think) lens company known for low cost but good value lenses. Until recently they were only manual focus but some new AF lenses are being released now too. They are also sold under the brands Rokinon and Bower. I have a couple of Rokinon lenses, a APS-C 8mm fisheye and a FF 14mm UWA and they are both very nice, especially considering the price.

A drawback of Pentax is there are fewer modern lenses available than for Canikon but they seem to be making some headway on that front lately.
There is a Pentax 100/2.8 macro in production that people like but my lenses in that range are all legacy lenses. The Elmarit 135/2.8 and also a Sears 135/2.8 (that may be a re-branded Tokina) fit the bill and the Sears has auto aperture. It's also not as sharp but for $40 on eBay I'm not going to complain. I also have a Pentax 100mm macro, the old manual f/4 version which is very sharp.

I'm sure there's a third (depending on how you count) version of GR coming out. The latest upgrade about a year ago just added wifi, so I didn't see a need to upgrade my first edition GR.

The 100/2.8 Macro is reasonably priced, and seems like a good portrait lens with pleasing bokeh.

Intriguing comment... please elaborate

I already elaborated in an earlier comment:

Quote
[...]mirrorless doesn't offer much - if any - improvements on size when comparing the same crop factor cameras. Here a size comparison between Fujifilm X-T2 with 90mm (135mm equivalent), Sony A7II with 90mm (longest Camera Size has), and Nikon D810 with 105mm. Fuji is also lightest at 1,047g, Sony 1,201g, Nikon 1,770g. Pretty striking differences between APS-C and FF. The apertures between the three combos are roughly similar, but the weight and size differential between the Sony and Nikon would be smaller with a native or adapted 105mm lens.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 06:05:41 pm by feppe »
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MattBurt

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2016, 06:28:49 pm »

Oh I forgot to mention the three 70-200/2.8 lenses available if you don't mind a zoom. Pentax, Sigma, and Tamron all have one, all pretty well regarded.
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scooby70

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2016, 07:21:40 pm »

but the more I think about it and see real life mirrorless FF cameras (Sonys), the benefits we see with the smaller form factor cameras don't translate well into FF.

I suppose it depends on your lens choice but even so an A7 with just about any lens is almost always going to be smaller than a DSLR with an equivalent quality lens unless the Sony lens is a real whopper as the body is so much smaller.

With a smallish prime my A7 is about the same size as my Panasonic G1 and it fits in the same small Lowepro bag as my Panasonic GX7.

I often use film era lenses and my A7 together with three film era primes (24, 28mm f2.8 or 35mm f1.8, 50mm f1.2 and 85mm f1.8/2 or 135mm f2.8 ) fits in a bag that used to be filled by my 5D with just the one lens fitted.

I don't think comparison shots like this tell the whole story.



I think this gives a better picture.



But I think that you have to hold the cameras to see if the difference is significant for you.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 07:33:18 pm by scooby70 »
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armand

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2016, 01:06:50 pm »

If I had m43 and full frame I wouldn't have gotten the aps-c Fuji. But Fuji was first and I don't see it leaving anytime soon as it has the better lenses and it's quite easy to use, plus great colors without much fiddling.

For the very shallow DOF in the 100-135mm range I don't think there are many options in m43 world. Even in the shorter portrait range they only have the 42.5 F1.2 which seems to be as good or better than the Fuji (for twice the money I think).
If you are willing to give up some DOF (or compromise on the the equiv fov for a 75 F1.8 ) it doesn't make sense to get another system.

scyth

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2016, 01:55:56 pm »

For the very shallow DOF in the 100-135mm range I don't think there are many options in m43 world.

http://metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPEF-M43-BT4 + Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM = 120mm eq FOV (85 * 2 * 0.7) @ 1.8 eq aperture (1.2 + 2 stops - 1 stop) ... with autofocus... but yes, it is an expensive adapter

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lowep

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Re: Camera system to complement Micro Four Thirds and large format film
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2016, 02:05:51 pm »

[...]mirrorless doesn't offer much - if any - improvements on size when comparing the same crop factor cameras. Here a size comparison between Fujifilm X-T2 with 90mm (135mm equivalent), Sony A7II with 90mm (longest Camera Size has), and Nikon D810 with 105mm. Fuji is also lightest at 1,047g, Sony 1,201g, Nikon 1,770g. Pretty striking differences between APS-C and FF. The apertures between the three combos are roughly similar, but the weight and size differential between the Sony and Nikon would be smaller with a native or adapted 105mm lens.

Uhuh now understood you are only referring to size and not other features of mirrorless cameras
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