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Author Topic: Epson - Finest Detail Setting  (Read 6911 times)

tonyrom

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Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« on: August 07, 2016, 01:19:32 am »

This post is more of a request for confirmation versus a question.  I have read many post/articles on this website and across the web on Finest Detail setting.  Eric Chan's post states that the Finest Detail setting determines what ppi the printer is expecting.  Jeff Schewe will say just set it on to do 720ppi.  What I am looking is confirmation that the printer pipeline will resample when the inbound image does not match its Finest Detail setting(ON=720ppi / OFF=360ppi).

Test:

The image I used was at 400 ppi and was a series of vertical lines separated by spaces to form a rectangle and solid diagonals and diamonds at different ppi 720/360/240/180(found the image somewhere on the web). I did 4 prints varying the Print Resolution(PR) On/Off (set to 720 ppi) and Finest Detail(FD) On/Off.

Printer Epson P7000.  Glossy Paper.  Print Sharpening Off.  All test prints were done @2880 dpi.  I did 4 prints:

The comments below are for the 720 ppi parts of the printout (for this test I am ignoring the 360/240/180 ppi sections of the printout)

1. PR=ON FD=ON - This produced the best results as expected.  The vertical lines and spacing were very even and the print looked excellent. Clearly see each vertical black line and the spacing between lines.  The overall color(gray) of the printer rectangle of lines was very consistent.

2. PR=OFF FD=ON, This was the next best results. Spacing was good for most of the lines, some lines were thicker and looking at the block of lines you can see what looks like banding due to some groups of lines looking darker.

3. PR=OFF FD=OFF, This was the 3rd best results.  There is separation between the lines albeit varied a bit and shows as various shades of gray across the rectangle.

4. PR=ON FD=OFF, This was the worst.  Basically a gray rectangle with very little detail.

This is my conclusion which I am seeking comments on how the Finest Detail(FD) is behaving.

Test 1. Since the PPI from LR matched the printer pipeline, the print driver did not touch any aspect of the resolution and the results looks good at 720ppi.

Test 2.  LR did not up sample but the printer pipe line was set to 720ppi; therefore, the driver up sampled the image to 720ppi(image is 400ppi).  Not as well as LR does up sampling so it doesn't look as good as test 1.

Test 3.  LR did not down sample and the printer pipe line was set to 360ppi;therefore, the driver down sampled the image to 360ppi(image is 400ppi).

Test 4. LR up sampled to 720ppi but the printer pipe line was set to 360ppi;therefore, a down sample was done by the driver to 360ppi(image got up sampled to 720pp).

So the Finest Detail setting is a print driver feature that allows the print to be 360ppi or 720ppi. Any image that comes in the print pipe line that doesn't match one of these 2 resolutions will get resampled to the Finest Detail resolution selected (OFF=360, ON=720).

-Tony
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2016, 05:49:46 am »

This post is more of a request for confirmation versus a question.  I have read many post/articles on this website and across the web on Finest Detail setting.  Eric Chan's post states that the Finest Detail setting determines what ppi the printer is expecting.  Jeff Schewe will say just set it on to do 720ppi.  What I am looking is confirmation that the printer pipeline will resample when the inbound image does not match its Finest Detail setting(ON=720ppi / OFF=360ppi.


Hi Tony,

That's correct, and many tests like the one you did confirm it. A printing application like Qimage Ultimate will show which PPI the printer driver says it expects, and the Finest detail toggle will switch between 360 and 720 PPI. When a non-matching PPI (=output size / number of pixels) is sent to the printer driver, the driver (or on Mac OS it's delegated to the OS) will resample.

Tests also suggest that the resampling method used is something like bi-linear, which is not as good as what other software uses for resampling. In addition, if you resample 'yourself' instead of letting the printer driver pipe-line do it for you, you gain the opportunity to apply output sharpening on the final/upsampled image data. It won't be resampled again, so the result is predictable.

Quote
So the Finest Detail setting is a print driver feature that allows the print to be 360ppi or 720ppi. Any image that comes in the print pipe line that doesn't match one of these 2 resolutions will get resampled to the Finest Detail resolution selected (OFF=360, ON=720).

Yes, that sums it up.

FYI, I don't know which test image you used, but I made one (link) that also allows to see the effects of printhead alignment and ink-diffusion caused by different output media. It's an extremely critical/sensitive test, and it's rare to get totally artifact free results, so the goal is to get it to be as good as possible.

Cheers,
Bart
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tonyrom

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Re: Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2016, 11:32:39 am »

Thank you, Bart.

The moral of the story for me is: It's not enough to set the print resolution to 720ppi in LR, you need set the Finest Detail to ON in the print settings; otherwise, you will get the results I determined in test #4, which is the worst looking image.

Thank you for the sample image.  I will try it!

-tony
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bjanes

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Re: Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2016, 01:29:08 pm »

This post is more of a request for confirmation versus a question.  I have read many post/articles on this website and across the web on Finest Detail setting.  Eric Chan's post states that the Finest Detail setting determines what ppi the printer is expecting.  Jeff Schewe will say just set it on to do 720ppi.  What I am looking is confirmation that the printer pipeline will resample when the inbound image does not match its Finest Detail setting(ON=720ppi / OFF=360ppi).

Tony,

Thanks for the excellent post. Your recommended settings are what I use after reading Jeff Schewe's The Digital Print book and when the native resolution if the image is greater or equal to 360 ppi. As I understand it, if the PR box is not checked, the native resolution of the image will be sent to the printer and resampled by printer driver to the native resolution of the printer (360 ppi), using a likely inferior algorithm.

If the native resolution of the image is less than or equal to 360 ppi, Jeff recommends setting the resolution to 360 ppi. You could use 720 ppi and finest detail, but I don't think there would be an advantage in this case. Have you tested with native print resolutions of less than 360 ppi?

Regards,

Bill
 
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2016, 01:38:56 pm »

What about downsampling? Now I have a 5Ds, my uncropped photos are more than 720dpi when printed on A4 paper. What's the best thing to do when printing to my 3800?

Jeremy
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2016, 02:16:14 pm »

What about downsampling? Now I have a 5Ds, my uncropped photos are more than 720dpi when printed on A4 paper. What's the best thing to do when printing to my 3800?

Hi Jeremy,

Downsampling to 720 PPI (with 'Finest Detail' selected) will do the trick. Lightroom does a pretty good job at that, and although the choices in output sharpening are limited to a few settings, that should be enough for most purposes.

Personally I'd use Topaz Labs "Detail" to get the most out of that final output sharpening step, because it can do more than just resharpen the resampling blur at the finest detail level. It also allows to enhance the detail of larger feature sizes that are somewhat larger (after downsampling).

Cheers,
Bart
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tonyrom

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Re: Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2016, 03:11:14 pm »

Tony,

If the native resolution of the image is less than or equal to 360 ppi, Jeff recommends setting the resolution to 360 ppi. You could use 720 ppi and finest detail, but I don't think there would be an advantage in this case. Have you tested with native print resolutions of less than 360 ppi?

Regards,

Bill

Hi Bill, I have not tested an image under the 360ppi.  In my opinion, you get to the resolution you need(which is dictated by the printer, for Epson 360ppi or 720ppi) with programs that are designed to do the best job (best is defined by you) and don't let print pipe line do something on your behalf.  Of course, the pipeline up sample maybe good enough for what you are doing. This is something you will have to decide.

Thanks,
Tony
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Epson - Finest Detail Setting
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2016, 03:27:51 am »

Thanks, Bart. I've been starting to use Topaz Detail. I'll keep at it.

Jeremy
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