Medium Format Lenses for the DSLR

[alan_b]

Those APO Componons on the Actus should be as good as anything else you'll find.  Latest APO Rodagons may be a bit better, debatable whether it'll be any practical difference.

80mm & up is fine for infinity w/ the Nikon.  45-60mm may work for macro (depending on extension).

[Theodoros]

.....what would you suggest as the best technical-bellows camera?

For a camera to extract the most out of a scene & of a lens for accuracy, one must be able to position the entrance pupil of the lens at exactly  the center of the circle of which the tilt arc is part of and the center of the image area too on the rear standard (so this is a combination of camera and user self involvement).... Other than that, rising and falling must be below the tilt mechanism and side shift bellow the swing mechanism... (otherwise combination of the above mentioned movements should be avoided on the same standard). I hope this makes it easy... 

I've many times seen users blaming the lens for operation that is the camera (or the user) to blame...

[Michael Erlewine]

For a camera to extract the most of a scene & lens for accuracy, one must be able to position the entrance pupil of the lens at exactly  the center of the circle of which the tilt arc is part of and the center of the image area too on the rear standard (so this is a combination of camera and user self involvement).... Other than that, rising and falling must be below the tilt mechanism and side shift bellow the swing mechanism... (otherwise combination of the above mentioned movements should be avoided on the same standard). I hope this makes it easy... 

I've many times seen users blaming the lens for operation that is the camera (or the user) to blame...
Note

I am waiting, if you will, for you to name the technical camera you suggest is better than the others. I would like to know please.

[Theodoros]

 It's all there... 

[Michael Erlewine]

It's all there... 

I guess I didn't get it, aside from the digital back. You mentioned that the Rollei was not good enough as a bellows system, so I wonder what is good enough. What did I miss?

[Theodoros]

I guess I didn't get it, aside from the digital back. You mentioned that the Rollei was not good enough as a bellows system, so I wonder what is good enough. What did I miss?

NO 21... all you'll ever need is there.

[Michael Erlewine]

NO 23... all you'll ever need is there.

You ask me all kinds of questions, which I tried to answer, yet you make it difficult for me. Why is that? Are you saying to use the Nikon by itself or on a bellows unit, in which case which one. If the Nikon by itself, then I thoroughly know that system If you mean Nikon PC lenses, they are not well corrected enough IMO. Could you be clearer please.

[Theodoros]

You ask me all kinds of questions, which I tried to answer, yet you make it difficult for me. Why is that? Are you saying to use the Nikon by itself or on a bellows unit, in which case which one. If the Nikon by itself, then I thoroughly know that system If you mean Nikon PC lenses, they are not well corrected enough IMO. Could you be clearer please.

The posts in Lula are numbered... if you look back and read carefully NO 21, it has all the answers you insist on there after.

There is nothing more wrong with Nikkor PC lenses than with other makers of Shift Tilt lenses, in fact, I find them better than competition... The purpose of all those lenses though isn't to replace view cameras... A (good) view camera is irreplaceable and much more accurate than anything else... It just has to be able to do what is mentioned back in No21...

Last thing, "accuracy is more important in photography than sharpness" (IMO)... accuracy improves sharpness and maximizes presentation, sharpness can by no means improve accuracy... the best photographers are always the most accurate ones, they only need to be sharp enough....   

[Michael Erlewine]

The posts in Lula are numbered... if you look back and read carefully NO 21, it has all the answers you insist on there after.

There is nothing more wrong with Nikkor PC lenses than with other makers of Shift Tilt lenses, in fact, I find them better than competition... The purpose of all those lenses though isn't to replace view cameras... A (good) view camera is irreplaceable and much more accurate than anything else... It just has to be able to do what is mentioned back in No23...

Last thing, "accuracy is more important in photography than sharpness" (IMO)... accuracy improves sharpness and maximizes presentation, sharpness can by no means improve accuracy... the best photographers are always the most accurate ones, they only need to be sharp enough....   

"Accuracy" in my work is a product of the process of photographing, which has been more important to me than simple photo results, although attention to process produces better results, etc. As for sharpness, I have my own ideas on that. Sharpness is a term that has no standard definition, other than it is a combination of resolution and acuity. In my work, I have found that another very important component is that of lens correction. Apochromatic lenses are key in my work for what I term "sharpness." Corrected lenses remove fringing, etc. and that greatly contributes to what we call sharpness. And, the size of the photosites of the sensor, the size of the "light wells," how much lucidity or whatever we want to call it, makes a difference.

Recently I have explored the Pixel-Shift technology in the new Pentax K1, and it is clear that purifying the colors of each pixel (RGBG images in the K1 for each pixel - four shots in all for each final image) is a great stride forward. However, the refinement of pixel shifting may take time. Too many artifacts are created by even the slightest movement.

This is why I am waiting for sensors above 50 Mpx to come along for the Nikon. The D810 has a hard-wired low ISO of 64 and this makes a big difference in the results I get.

As for the PC Nikkors, of which I have the three main ones: I find them not well-corrected enough for what I do.

I have used many very flat copy lenses, like the Coastal Optics 60mm APO lens, which is about as clinical as I know a lens.

I have done a lot of art copy work, like 33,000 rock-concert posters on a vacuum table that I built. That was a bit of work.

[Theodoros]

Recently I have explored the Pixel-Shift technology in the new Pentax K1, and it is clear that purifying the colors of each pixel (RGBG images in the K1 for each pixel - four shots in all for each final image) is a great stride forward. However, the refinement of pixel shifting may take time. Too many artifacts are created by even the slightest movement.

I don't know what K1 does and how it does it, I only know what Pentax advertises... But... I certainly know that a 16x true color file of 88mps out of my Sinarback 54H is absolutely completely free of even the slightest artifact and that it makes ANY single shot back pale in comparison... To say it otherwise... the multishot image looks extraterrestrial when compared to any image out of any single shot source...  Last thing that i would care off is for the resolution of single shot sensors to rise further... as if we have nothing better to do with our lives and work!    Now show me ONE photographer that has improved his photography because he replaced his sensor with another same size one with more pixels... Don't bother, there isn't any...  Then look at photographers improving their work y improving their skills...   

[Michael Erlewine]

I don't know what K1 does and how it does it, I only know what Pentax advertises... But... I certainly know that a 16x true color file of 88mps out of my Sinarback 54H is absolutely completely free of even the slightest artifact and that it makes ANY single shot back pale in comparison... To say it otherwise... the multishot image looks extraterrestrial when compared to any image out of any single shot source...  Last thing that i would care off is for the resolution of single shot sensors to rise further... as if we have nothing better to do with our lives and work!    Now show me ONE photographer that has improved his photography because he replaced his sensor with another same size one with more pixels... Don't bother, there isn't any...  Then look at photographers improving their work y improving their skills...

Well, for my work I want a larger sensor (50 Mpx or larger) with large photosites. That does make a difference.

[vjbelle]

For a camera to extract the most out of a scene & of a lens for accuracy, one must be able to position the entrance pupil of the lens at exactly  the center of the circle of which the tilt arc is part of and the center of the image area too on the rear standard (so this is a combination of camera and user self involvement).... Other than that, rising and falling must be below the tilt mechanism and side shift bellow the swing mechanism... (otherwise combination of the above mentioned movements should be avoided on the same standard). I hope this makes it easy... 

I've many times seen users blaming the lens for operation that is the camera (or the user) to blame...

Probably the only portable tech camera that would fill all of those requirements would be an M-Line 2.  It is slightly heavy (4.5 lbs) but supposedly very well made.  All geared movements, etc. I've considered getting one but would want to use one first.  I have an Actus DB+ which has all of the capabilities I need.

Victor

[Theodoros]

Probably the only portable tech camera that would fill all of those requirements would be an M-Line 2.  It is slightly heavy (4.5 lbs) but supposedly very well made.  All geared movements, etc. I've considered getting one but would want to use one first.  I have an Actus DB+ which has all of the capabilities I need.

Victor

I wasn't considering portability when I made the statement Victor... I rather had in mind cameras that have all up-down, side shift, tilt and swing on their standards. You can't have combined movements unless movements are there as to combine... can you?

Personally, I don't mind a camera that lucks swings and tilts on the rear standard (and only has rise/fall and side shifts), but I do mind if any of the movements are absent from the front standard. OTOH, if a camera has all the movements on its standard but the rise/fall mechanism is above the tilt one and/or the  side shift one above the swing mechanism, I wouldn't combine these groups of movements anyway on the same standard even if care has been taken for the entrance pupil of the lens to be positioned on the swing axis and then at a point on it which is also the center of the tilt arc...

[Paul2660]

Hello Michael,

Either the afore mentioned M-Line 2 or DSLR 2 both by Arca would be a great starting place as either unit will accommodate a DSLR body and Arca has plenty of bellow attachments.  The DSLR 2 is basically a M-Line2 with the necessary attachment for Nikon or Canon DSLR.  You have an extreme amount of control rear and front and all movements are geared.  As Victor mentioned, the Arca unit is heavy at 4.5lbs, but the Cambo Actus, will not accommodate a DSLR as far as I know, only a mirrorless body.

The other issue is that due to the mirror box of a DSLR, 90mm is the first focal length that will focus to infinity, but as you are interested in Macro shooting, infinity may not be an issue so the Schneider 60XL might be a good lens or a Rodenstock 70mm. 

The focus control of the DSLR2 is geared and even the finest adjustment as are possible. 

I saw your notes on the K1, (I have moved to the K1 from Nikon due to pixel shift), and agree that movement (mainly wind for me) can cause issues, but I was curious if you are using only LR for the raw conversions as LR cannot really handle the issue of movement well at all.  The Silkypix software that ships with the camera is very limited but does a good job, on the files much much better than LR can.  But the full version of Silkypix is much better.  Sadly only the windows version of Silkypix Developer Pro or Studio Pro can work with the Pixel shift raw files currently, the MAC version can't load them for some reason.  But the differences are striking in regards to the aliasing issue and you will find a lot more useable images from Silkypix.  Not sure if C1 will ever support Pixel shift and I also doubt LR will change/improve theirs as that tends to be the model.

Paul C

[Michael Erlewine]

Hello Michael,

 but the Cambo Actus, will not accommodate a DSLR as far as I know, only a mirrorless body.

The other issue is that due to the mirror box of a DSLR, 90mm is the first focal length that will focus to infinity, but as you are interested in Macro shooting, infinity may not be an issue so the Schneider 60XL might be a good lens or a Rodenstock 70mm. 

The focus control of the DSLR2 is geared and even the finest adjustment as are possible. 

I saw your notes on the K1, (I have moved to the K1 from Nikon due to pixel shift), and agree that movement (mainly wind for me) can cause issues, but I was curious if you are using only LR for the raw conversions as LR cannot really handle the issue of movement well at all.  The Silkypix software that ships with the camera is very limited but does a good job, on the files much much better than LR can.  But the full version of Silkypix is much better.  Sadly only the windows version of Silkypix Developer Pro or Studio Pro can work with the Pixel shift raw files currently, the MAC version can't load them for some reason.  But the differences are striking in regards to the aliasing issue and you will find a lot more useable images from Silkypix.  Not sure if C1 will ever support Pixel shift and I also doubt LR will change/improve theirs as that tends to be the model.

Paul C

I have been using the Cambo Actus, and it does support the Nikon D810 DSLR, which is what I am using. Works great. Infinity focus I don't need, since all of my work in close-up.

As for the K1 (and I had the K3 before it), the Pixel-shift is a move in the right direction, but I feel that Pentax is not easy to use for non-coupled lenses, i.e. all the exotics I use in a Nikon mount. The SilkyPix they send is unusable IMO, meaning I won't bother with it. In the end, I decided that the K1 has made it difficult to do what I want to do, although I like what I saw. I only shoot still-life, so Lightroom/PS handles that fine.

What I really want is a 50 Mpx (or greater) sensor with large photosites. The Actus does most of what I need and it is very portable, since I use it outside.

The Arca-Swiss Universalis DSLR looks very nice, but twice the weight of the Actus, which does most of what do in terms of movements.

[Theodoros]

Arca Universallis is only 200gr (or 20%) heavier than the Actus. It also has considerably larger magnitude of movements and additional vertical shift mechanism in the front standard. Overall as portable but much more capable for every kind of "work" one may compare the two for...

Also, Arca has redesigned the front standard's vertical shift mechanism and positioned it (correctly) bellow the tilt one than where it originally is on the rest of the F-line... Thus improving the camera's accuracy with respect to the rest of the F-line series.  I guess with the Universallis the user only has to worry (like with all other cameras) as to position the lens entrance pupil at exactly the tilt circle's center as to have an accurate camera to work with...

That said, if the lens entrance pupil is not positioned correctly (like most users don't care to do) the error created on a camera that tilts the frame by its center (like with L-type cameras or the Arcas) is considerably more than a camera with base tilts.

[Michael Erlewine]

(like with L-type cameras or the Arcas) is considerably more than a camera with base tilts.

What, pray tell, is "the Arcas"? You mean all Arca-Swiss cameras?

[vjbelle]

I wasn't considering portability when I made the statement Victor... I rather had in mind cameras that have all up-down, side shift, tilt and swing on their standards. You can't have combined movements unless movements are there as to combine... can you?

Well...... I got the indication that the OP was interested in portability - if not then hire a couple of porters and have them carry around a 12lb. studio LF camera that has all of the movements desired if shooting outside the studio is a goal.  Both Cambo and Arca make such cameras and they are all very heavy and meant for studio work.

I also think that if anyone has invested into an Actus and is happy then they should just stay with it as moving on to another manufacturer can be expensive.  Trade in opportunities - if they even exist - are ridiculously low.  That would mean selling current equipment on the open market to get whatever you can.  All of that for a heavier camera that may or may not give you anything more than what the Actus had. 

and..... Arcas as Theodoros calls them means Arca Swiss.

Victor

[Theodoros]

Well...... I got the indication that the OP was interested in portability - if not then hire a couple of porters and have them carry around a 12lb. studio LF camera that has all of the movements desired if shooting outside the studio is a goal.  Both Cambo and Arca make such cameras and they are all very heavy and meant for studio work.

I also think that if anyone has invested into an Actus and is happy then they should just stay with it as moving on to another manufacturer can be expensive.  Trade in opportunities - if they even exist - are ridiculously low.  That would mean selling current equipment on the open market to get whatever you can.  All of that for a heavier camera that may or may not give you anything more than what the Actus had. 

and..... Arcas as Theodoros calls them means Arca Swiss.

Victor

Well... you had the wrong impression Victor, If you look back my reply at No21 is a quote after the O/P asked me as to what I think is a better alternative to the ...X-act2 he is using.

I don't disagree with you on your opinion on the Actus, nor I ever suggested that one that has it should change it... I only said my opinion that the Universallis is a more capable camera and not really bulkier or heavier, while the Actus is more (IMO) a universal mechanism for one to turn many wide image circle lenses to T/S lenses and then use them as such instead of buying a selection of such lenses in different focal lengths which of course would be a much more costly solution.

[Michael Erlewine]

I don’t believe I am the Lone Ranger here, but just part of a trend of photographers who are discovering the beauty of technical cameras, now that they are being offered to fit our DSLRs.

What is perhaps only a trickle now will become a flood before we know it and breathe new life into the LF genre. That would be my opinion, at any rate.

And each of us newbies will have our special request. In my case, I am looking for lenses that are fast and sharp wide-open, so that I can stack photos and have some bokeh to play with. I have written many articles and several books about all of this.

So, this is a great learning experience. Thanks for all the info. Keep it coming!