Epson P7000 - final print image layout

[tonyrom]

I purchased a P7000 and although the printer is designed for roll paper, the specs state it does sheets as well with no caveats (more on this in a moment).  The problem I run into is printing on 8.5x11.  The border at the top and bottom(viewing the sheet in portrait position) comes out correct assuming I using Letter - Sheet (Centered). The left and right margins are never correct.  The left margin is alway ~.15" wider than the right which in very noticeably off center.  Speaking with Epson support, they tell me a few things.  First, the printer is designed for rolls.  Second, if you want to print sheets and fix this issue, you need to use photoshop and layout the image offset in the canvas.  My response to the "designed for roll" is - according to your specs, it is supported and there weren't any caveats around the support.  My response to the using PS and offset the images is - no way.  For me this is unacceptable to hand someone a print and it's offset or that I have to do a bunch of work just to get the print to layout correctly.  Clearly this is a driver issue.

My question is: Have others experienced this?  What was your solution?

I spoke with John at ImagePrint and he guarentees with ImagePrint, the layouts are correct.  Since he has developed the print pipeline, I believe him.  But that is another chunk of money to spend (although the profiles he provides will save the cost of buying a profiler).  However, my biggest complaint is the bump in workflow.

Thanks in advance!
-tony

[Mark D Segal]

You shouldn't need to spend over a thousand dollars on a RIP to center prints in an Epson printer, no matter what model.

The bottom margin needs 15mm minimum margin unless doing borderless printing. So you need to make sure both the top and bottom margins are set the same, and no less than 15mm. There is no driver "issue". It's a matter of making sure the print size, cell size, margins are correctly set in the driver to produce a centered print. You can make a preset once you have the right settings and always return to that preset for the same printing conditions with one mouse click. Not much more to say about this without detailed information on your photo size, paper size and all the related settings in both the driver and printing application.

[tonyrom]

Thank you, Mark.  I agree with your first sentence!

Additional context.  I have successfully printed(and have been printing) the image on my 3880 with all the borders correct.  For the P7000, I have used LR, PS, and Preview and all have the same issues.  Either I am missing something fundamental  (I never rule out it is me)  or there is something wrong with the driver.  The top and bottom borders come out even if I use the "Letter Sheet (Centered)" wrong otherwise (with Letter Sheet because the bleed dimensions are different), which affects the left/right edges in Landscape viewing position.  The Top margin looks significantly larger than the bottom.  I assume if I am getting repeatable results in other programs it must be the driver.  I doubt there is a hardware issues.

Perhaps I need to rip the driver out manually (intentionally find the bits on the drive and delete them)
 and reinstall it?

This is really frustrating for me and off topic.  There is a longer story with Epson. I originally purchased a P6000 and among the other things wrong with it(Bad Head, damaged front door), the paper feeder would feed the paper crooked.  Hence, skewed prints. Epson Pro support for the most part is really good and responsive and they purchased the printer back.  Purchased the P7000, and it has problems.  The right door wont latch and the support guy is coming tomorrow.

[tonyrom]

Mark, you asked for settings and results.

Here are the settings and info. This example is from LR 2015

All in inches

Page Setup
 Custom Size - Width=8.5 Height =11
 Top = Bottom = .55
 Left=Right = 1
Orientation = Portrait

Printer Settings
 Page Setup Sheet- Centering

Image Settings
 Zoom to Fill (Makes it easier to measure)
 Rotate to Fit

Layout
 Left = Right = 1.00
 Top = Bottom = .75

Cell Size
 Height = 9.50
 Width = 6.50

Dimensions reads 6.5x9.5 in

********************************

Results:
 Top=Bottom = .75 This is Correct.
 Left = 1.15 in.  - .15 in too wide
 Right = .85 in.  - .15 in too narrow

Photo Size:

Photo =  6.5 x 9.5 final output - Correct

The left margin is .15 too wide and the right margin is .15 too narrow.

Thank you,
Tony

[Wayne Fox]

All "Sheet - centering" does is force the top margin minimum to match the bottom margin minimum ... so instead of .12 top and .55 bottom, it forces .55 top and bottom.  It makes it easier from some software to get things centered vertically on the paper.

However, if what you are printing has larger margins than the minimum , you can disregard most of the settings and it's really much simpler.

If you are creating a custom paper size, set the margins to 0. Otherwise just select Letter (sheet) as the size.  (although with the cell size you are specifying choosing centering should work fine).  Set all margins to 0 in Lightroom, and then enter your cell size.  It will be centered.  As long as cell doesn't need to print in the area not allowed, it should print fine.

If the side margins are extremely off, then there is something amiss in your printer. 

[tonyrom]

Thank you, Wayne.

I did exactly as you prescibed and I got the identical results as I posted with all the measurements.  The left border is too wide by .15in and the right border is too narrow by .15in.  Top and Bottom margins are good.

Additional Note: Prior to this evenings round of test, I deleted the drivers from my Mac and reinstalled them from the Epson .dmg.  Firmware is the latest.  Same results.

Now, I downloaded and tried Mirage Print and the print came out almost perfect, the left is .04in too wide, and the right to .04 to narrow.  A lot closer.

-tony

[Mark D Segal]

I'm surprised. Wayne's advice should work. In addition to his recommendations, try turning off "zoom to fill", select "US Letter Sheet Maximum" as the paper size in Page Set-Up, and see if you get a correct result.

[Garnick]

I'm surprised. Wayne's advice should work. In addition to his recommendations, try turning off "zoom to fill", select "US Letter Sheet Maximum" as the paper size in Page Set-Up, and see if you get a correct result.

Hi Tony,

I've been working with Epson large format printers for more that 10 years(7600s, 9600 and currently 9900), and never yet have I printed and image from PS on 8.5x11 sheet and found the right and left borders(Portrait) equal.  For me that's not an issue, since an 8x10 would be trimmed borderless.  However, if I were to print a 5x7 centered on 8.5x11 the 11" the borders would not be equal then either.  I've never actually measured the discrepancy, but I don't believe it would be quite .15".  Nevertheless, not equal.  Again, not an issue for me, since I can trim the slight difference.  The fact that Mirage seemed to do a better job of centering is interesting and something to keep in mind.  As Mark has mentioned, I found it rather curious that you were choosing the "Zoom To Fill" setting, which I believe might have exacerbated the issue.  If I ever have an issue with the size of a printed image it is usually linked to the fact that somehow on the 9900 driver the "Scale to Fit Media" setting has been checked.  It's very seldom that would happen and I've never been able to discover why, since I would never set it intentionally.  As with Mark, I would definitely suggest that you try unchecking that option in the driver and see if that makes any difference.   

Gary             

[Wayne Fox]

Zoom to fill enlarges the image if it’s aspect ratio doesn't match the cell to force the entire cell to be printed. in this case it means the printed area would always be 6.5 inches x 9.5 inches regardless of the aspect ratio of the original image. Not using zoom to fill may result in borders larger than 1" in this case, but the printed area should still be centered on the page.

As mentioned, the large format Epson printers have never been extremely accurate in their horizontal placement of the image on a sheet of paper, but normally the difference isn't noticeable even on the size of paper being discussed.  On my p9000 it's not quite 1/16", so maybe about 0.06 inches or so.  I can measure it, but looking at it it's not noticeable. 

After setting everything up as I described, you might try adding a .15 inch border to the short side of the print, which might force the cell over enough to be centered. 

[tonyrom]

Guys, thank you for the replies.  Much appreciated.

Scale the Media was never checked. Zoom to Fit was just used as a convenience in measuring (never use it otherwise). On or Off, no difference with respect to border differences, of course the photo was a different size.

There is one thing I finally did:

For the Page Setup, I am using Landscape (mistyped above) orientation, so my neck doesn't get stiff looking at a Landscape photo. This is where the borders are off by .15 on each side.  I decided to set the page up in Portrait, same as the paper is positioned in the printer.  I get a significant improvement in print layout. The difference is only .07in versus .15in.  With Mirage print the border was .03 diff.


The feedback on the wide format printers doing even borders at least give me some peace of mind, it's not me.  It bugs me but I guess I have to live with it. After all, only I will know under that mat, the border is off!

Again, many thanks to everyone who has taken time to reply.

-tony