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Author Topic: LR and Olympus high resolution files  (Read 2826 times)

armand

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LR and Olympus high resolution files
« on: July 27, 2016, 08:47:20 PM »

Do you know if LR has the a similar issues with the high resolution files from Olympus (E-M5ii) as it has with the Pentax K1?
The files are softish and they deal poorly with any motion.

BobDavid

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 01:10:41 AM »

CS6 / ACR supports E-M5 II high rez files. I'm not a LR user, but I would assume LR and ACR have similar genetic traits. ACR does a fine job of developing the high rez files. The motion artifacts, not so. It's a good idea to shoot a single shot in standard rez mode and then upsize it. Use that as a bottom layer tiff and paste the high rez file over that. Use masking to "paint out" the artifacts. The difference in resolution between the top and bottom layers sometimes requires a micro contrast adjustment (Topaz Infocus works well) on the low resolution layer. Often, that step isn't necessary.
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 08:33:11 AM »

They look good to me in LR from the E-M5II.  Processing was just fine.  They look surprisingly good.  Honestly, the biggest issue is the same as any huge sensor, plus more since its multiple shots being made.  You need STABILITY.  Serious stability to get a good, sharp, 60mp image.  I dont care if its a medium format sensor, or a composite m43 image.  A lot of people forget that.  And these cameras being so light lend themselves to being more casual about support. 

In fact, if you are using the camera on a tripod, I would use a remote shutter from a cell phone or cable release in high res mode.  It will make a difference. 
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Tony
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armand

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 12:55:54 PM »

Tripod wasn't that strong but should have been good enough, very little if any wind. After I push the shutter there is a delay before it starts shooting anyway. Main issue was with motion, and they do look softish. I could almost get a similar result by upsizing the 16mp shots.

I will try with a stronger tripod. Current results are so so, difficult to justify the extra effort unless I really want to print it large.

BobDavid

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 02:28:49 PM »

Did you try turning off the in camera stabilization function? How about switching to manual focus? What focal length lens were you using?
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armand

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 09:17:05 PM »

Did you try turning off the in camera stabilization function? How about switching to manual focus? What focal length lens were you using?

IS was off. It was on autofocus, but the target was pretty easy to focus on. This was with the 12-40 2.8, mostly around 15-25 range.

Mousecop

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 09:27:46 PM »

LR isn't the problem.

IS isn't the problem. High res mode automatically turns IS off.

Focus could be an issue, but you can test that by using manual focus and magnification. Or, by stopping down.

Fundamentally though, that the camera and subject need to be really, really, really stable for hi-res to work, and there is no motion correction whatsoever. Decent tripod, everything locked down, cable release and/or time delay, completely static subject.

And even under optimal conditions, the benefits are a bit limited. You need to be dealing with very large output sizes for the increased resolution to be observable.
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2016, 06:43:54 PM »

It's not for fun that the new phase one came actually has a vibration detector.  At anything above 35 mp or so, the smallest things imperfections become serious issues and the not so relevant stuff on smaller mp become very relevant.  You could get away with anything at 12 - 20mp.  That s why it's the digital sweet spot too.  Enough res for almost anything, but still not revealing of the small stuff.  It's not just your high res mode that is a pain to work with, it's high mp in general.  It takes work.  That's why it astounds me that the latest trend is super high mp cameras.  Especially in smaller formats that don't have the mass or burdensome weight to force you to stabilize.
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Tony
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armand

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 01:38:06 PM »

I forgot or more I hoped my initial issues were just a fluke but after shooting more I don't know how some get good results.
The associated jpeg looks ok but the raw has obvious issues when I open it in LR and postprocessing only makes it worse.

Will it look better in a different application?

TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 03:53:36 PM »

Lightroom doesn't sharpen the High res files very much.  That is what you may be experiencing if the JPG files look good.  The in-camera sharpening on the high res files is decent...but it's there.  The raw files don't have any it seems, and Lightroom sharpening for high res is kinda funny.  I apply a specific lightroom sharpening, and then on any high res files that will get printed or delivered to a client, I take into photoshop and do either a smart sharpen or an unsharpen mask.  Whichever looks better based on some settings experiments. 

Capture One makes the high res raw files look a lot closer to a normal, sharp file.  They are soft by default in lightroom.  I use lightroom mostly and just did a bunch of architectural shots for a client using the high res mode and the results are great.  They just need a bit more work to get looking right than a standard file.

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Tony
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armand

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2017, 02:47:42 AM »

The raw files have more stitching artifacts than I would have expected and when they get postprocessed it only makes it worse. It's not that they don't look sharp enough, it's stitching that's way too sensitive and difficult to get it right.

The jpg also has some of the the same artifacts but it hides then better and I don't think it's just because the resolution is lower. That's why I'm wondering how much of this is lightroom.

TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 08:08:37 AM »

Hi Armand,  can you post and example file.  Or If you want, send me a raw high res directly via dropbox or we transfer.  Ide love to see exactly what is going on here.  Aside from honest motion in the frame like foliage blowing under heavy wind, or water, or cars...the files have been excellent when stable.  I not only use high res often, but deliver high res to clients daily.  I have yet to encounter any kind of issue that would make the file unusable or of less quality than the jpg especially.  I'm very curious to see what is going on. 

Not to rule anything out... but I did have a stabilization system out of whack on an e-m1 v1 once.  Olympus replaced it.
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Tony
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jeffreybehr

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 02:33:17 PM »

I bought a new EM1.2 a couple months ago, and after sorting thru what-seems-like-thousands of options in the menu, I'm very happy with it.  I had an EM5.2 a few years ago and remember being pleased with it and especially the results of the HiRez mode.  I use PSCC to develop images including processing RAWs, and altho I've not used anything else to do so, I'm quite happy with the results of the EM1.2's double-size SuperHiRez* images.  Actually, I'm astonished at the overall excellence of the 10368-pixel-wide SHR RAWs from the EM1.2.  I use a Gitzo GT2631LVL CF tripod, an ARCA Cube, and, at least not yet, NO remote shutter actuator.  All RAWs processed in PSCC's ACR are a bit soft, but that's what UnsharpMask is for. 
http://s89.photobucket.com/user/jeffreybehr/media/0%20Olympus%20EM-1%20Mk%20II/2017June24_6250009_Lighted%20Window_1500h_zpsfiagarvu.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Armand, I hope you get your EM5.2 running satisfactorily.


* See http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/m43/em1.2-hires-2.html for more details.  I especially didn't like that the 8-odd-thousand-pixels-wide results of the HiRez mode was a JPG and not a RAW.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 07:11:54 PM by jeffreybehr »
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armand

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 02:46:54 AM »

I'm on a low resolution laptop monitor (first time I'm thinking maybe a higher resolution might have been better) and it's difficult to browse and properly select the worst areas.
I'm posting this selection from the first photo where I've noticed them, they don't look that terrible anymore but still not good.
I'll be waiting until I get to a proper computer to go over stuff properly.

armand

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 02:50:14 AM »

This is how the entire raw looks like

nma

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2017, 09:39:11 AM »

Armand,
This is a very nice sunrise scene. I agree that the IQ is not what we expect (hope). On the other hand, there is a lot of atmospheric haze. It is also not clear to me that the image is in sharp focus. I can say for sure that my experience with Hi Res does not match this result. using the 12-40 Oly Pro zoom, the results are sharp and clear. My technique includes auto focus on the nearest object of photographic interest, followed by touch up with manual focus. Developed in LRcc, HiRes are really sharp and clear after applying the usual types of pp.

Why don't you do a controlled experiment. Set up a tripod  to photograph a scene using Hi Res and normal imaging mode. In your test scene make sure that you have an object to focus on, so we know what element should be critically sharp. I use f4- f5.6 for HiRes whenever possible. Show us the results.
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armand

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 12:38:33 AM »

I don't think you are seeing what I'm seeing. Sharpness is not the question here but the matrix like artifacts. I'll try to find a more obvious shot when I'll get back to my main computer.

PS. looking on my phone I realize they are almost impossible to see, something was lost in conversion. I used screen capture to avoid this but I guess I'll have to export directly from LR

PPS. On the bright side if they are gone during this conversion chances are they will be much less during printing also
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:42:15 AM by armand »
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nma

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 08:55:51 AM »

Armand, Have you tried the haze removal tool in LR? That might be revealing :-).
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mecrox

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 04:58:42 PM »

I've developed high-res files from my EM5.2 using Olympus Viewer, DXO Optics Pro and Lightroom - all the most recent versions. In my subjective view, the best is Olympus Viewer, then DXO Optics Pro by a small margin then Lightroom. But with tweaking and care over settings, LR or the current version anyway does a perfectly decent job, I think, and it has far more tools than the other two - brushes, gradient fills, etc.

I like to improve micro-contrast and punch using the Topaz Adjust plugin with LR but probably tweaking the LR sliders would have the same effect. DxO comes into its own at higher ISOs because of its excellent Prime denoising engine and/or for film emulations if you buy the DxO Film Pack plugin.

LR is very useful for doing HDR combines from two or more high-res files - a resource-eater but it works. I often use this for church interiors, one shot for the interior and one for the bright stained-glass windows. An alternative here is luminance blending using a Photoshop plugin like Raya Pro which gives much more control over what range of tones is used in the output image.

Anyway, plenty of tools out there but a very very solid tripod or surface is the essential requirement. Any vibration at all will show up.
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BobDavid

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Re: LR and Olympus high resolution files
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2017, 10:43:02 PM »

The Olympus Viewer handles hi-res files the best. The matrix issue/artifacts are due to slight camera shake or subject movement during the the 8-exposure cycle. I've been using the Oly high-res mode since purchasing an EM-5 II. I've sold that camera and have replaced it with the Pen F. The files from the Pen F are a bit larger. I usually take a normal res photo after a high-res. That is helpful for headlights at night, scenes with people, and night, foliage on windy days. I've gotten amazing results with the high-res mode. Impeccable technique is a given.
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