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Author Topic: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project  (Read 8911 times)

dmward

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Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« on: July 26, 2016, 03:46:04 pm »

I am about to undertake a project that will result in a large number of images that will be blended from multiple A7RII files.
It could be as many as 20 layers for blending. And maybe some stitching together as well.

At the moment I am using an iMAC and the few times I've done similar processing it has really bogged down.

I use CC so both Lightroom and Photoshop are the latest CC versions.

I've read the threads related to Mac Pro options with interest.
Since I'm in Chicago the OWC used Mac option is quite attractive.

Question becomes which is the better approach MacPro 5,1 or 6,1 with which processor(s) and how much memory?
I already have the OWC Thunderbolt external housings so they will move to the new computer.

I like the idea of two SSD and two large plater drives in the 4 bay housing. Should I still put an SSD into the computer for applications?
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BobShaw

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2016, 07:54:33 pm »

20 layers is not huge.
How much memory do you have in the iMac and what model is it?
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Benny Profane

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2016, 11:55:09 pm »

I'm very happy with my OWC purchase, which Is talked about in this thread: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=110101.0.

Super value. I went with a 500 gig ssd drive for the system and apps.
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Joe Towner

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 12:41:56 am »

I'd look really close at the current 5k iMacs.  The trash cans haven't been updated, and there have been plenty of tests between the 5k and the Mac Pro, where the iMac is actually faster.

You'll want a SSD for the boot/os drive, plus a separate one for PS scratch, and a separate on for source files.  Size is relative, and 2.5" ssd's are cheap!

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memory/iMac-5K-Versus-Mac-Pro-Speed-Test
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dmward

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 09:37:26 am »

Thanks guys.
In order:
Bob, my current iMac has only 8 GB of ram which I know is too little.
While 20 layers isn't a lot they are Sony A7RII uncompressed and each layer is about 250Mb.

Benny,
I read that thread and found the information useful. It got me looking at the OWC used Pros and that's led to these questions.

Joe, Hadn't thought about the newer iMACs just figured the Pro would offer more options. I have Thunderbolt external drive housing from OWC and am converting them to RAID. Its a struggle to get everything organized. Over the years I've put files on so many different drives its hard to now get them properly organized and protected properly.  :(

I realize the SSD drives will be key to performance along with memory.
I take it your suggestion is three SSD drives. What impact does Thunderbolt have on performance or should they all be bus connected?
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Joe Towner

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 05:43:32 pm »

3 SSDs, 1 internal, and 2 external via the TB external should be more than fine.  Getting your Photoshop swap off your OS drive will be critical since it'll grow and grow until it runs out of space.  The Thunderbolt-SATA enclosure on TB2 is more than fast enough for all that data throughput, and that leaves a second TB2 port open.

The 5K iMac with a 512gb SSD and the 4ghz i7 proc, do your RAM as an aftermarket upgrade, and then it's just which graphics card do you want.  Priced out, the top end model with the M395 is $50 more than the mid level at the same price.  Just a matter if the M395x is worth the $250.

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BobShaw

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 06:12:21 pm »

Thanks guys.
In order:
Bob, my current iMac has only 8 GB of ram which I know is too little.
I have Thunderbolt external drive housing from OWC and am converting them to RAID.
If you have recent iMac it will have 4 RAM slots and you are probably using two. Adding two 8GB Ram chips (non genuine) will increase your RAM to 24GB which is a huge increase at about 10% the cost of a new machine. Check compatibility.
Raid provides no extra protection than a single drive so there is no point. Use extra drives for Backup. (What's the difference between Backup and Raid? You need to find out) If you wish you can read my blog called Your Digital Legacy at AspirationImages.com/blog
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rdonson

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 09:05:59 pm »

My wife's recent iMac came with 2-4GB RAM DIMMs.  I added 2-16GB DIMMS and now she has 40GB RAM.  Apple says her's will address 64GB RAM if I wanted to go that far.
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mcbroomf

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2016, 04:34:11 am »

Once the files are open in PS it doesn't matter if they are stored compressed or uncompressed.  I lightpaint with 10-15 layer images a fair bit and end up with files (stored as .psb) in the 2-3GB range.  I just opened my largest which is in fact 20 layers (no adjustment layers, all images and masks) and it was ~4.2GB.  Although I'm on a PC metrics may be similar, so with 32GB of RAM; PS, system, 8 Chrome pages, a couple of Firefox and  little else ~60% of the RAM is consumed, so I would steer north of 16GB, and as others have said, individual SSDs for everything.
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george2787

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2016, 09:28:48 am »

Right now I'm using the same 4 ghz processor of the iMac 5k, 32 gb of RAM and a samsung EVO SSD and working with 100+ megapixel images with file size ranging from 1 to 25 GB with no problem. With a top of the line imac you should be good and the bang for the buck is better, I've worked with 6 core and 12 core mac pros with up to 64 and noticed few to no difference.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 05:29:48 pm by george2787 »
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Joe Towner

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 11:39:35 am »

As a general note, I hate that Apple has left the trash can Mac Pro to wither on the vine.  It should have had at least 1 CPU/GPU upgrade by now.
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Benny Profane

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2016, 07:31:19 pm »

Personally, I'm happy that this constant upgrading of PCs has slowed down dramatically. Considering that the market these days in all about phones and tablets, be happy Mac hasn't abandoned the very small, and I assume, not too profitable market. I'll bet there have been discussions about just that in conference rooms, especially if the bean counters are there. I just bought a hot rodded 2010 Mac, and hopefully I get five years out of it, maybe a little more. That's ok with me. Also, new processors usually mean new software, and then new software needs newer processors. Thank goodness that's turned into a much slower dance.
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dmward

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2016, 12:36:42 pm »

I appreciate all the suggestions.
My current iMAC 21.5 has only two slots buried under the logic board and a pain to get at so probably no economical way to get it upgraded.
The 5K iMAC option is intriguing. Didn't realize how good the performance is compared to the Pro.
They have some that are quite reasonable on the OWC used page.
Given the performance comparison its hard to justify the Pro. I do like to print on an Epson 3880 put I've had good luck keeping the iMAC calibrated so that shouldn't change.

Can probably wait till after the September announcements from Apple -- just in case   :D

The RAID I was referring to is the mirror version. I'd been copying folders to two drives from my cards to create a backup. When I got the newest two drives I mounted them into a two bay OWC Thunderbolt housing and set it to RAID 1 to mirror the drives. That saves having to save the files from the cards to one drive then copy the folder to a second drive.

I plan to do the same thing with the 4 bay OWC Thunderbolt housing. But with two sets of RAID 1 drives via software RAID.
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rdonson

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2016, 04:02:33 pm »

What year iMac do you have?  All the iMacs I've seen have a "door" on the bottom of machine for accessing the RAM.  Just loosen one screw and the "door" comes off.  It's been awhile since iMacs only had 2 RAM slots in them.

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BobShaw

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2016, 05:55:03 pm »

My current iMAC 21.5 has only two slots buried under the logic board and a pain to get at so probably no economical way to get it upgraded.
The RAID I was referring to is the mirror version.
My Late 2013 iMac is iMac 14.2, so I doubt that you have a 21.5
Go Apple Menu / About This Mac / System Report and it will tell you what iMac you have and if you then select "Memory" it will tell you what slots you have and what's in them. Then go to a Ram site like this one https://www.ramcity.com.au and it will tell you what you can put in. There will be a similar site where you live.

It doesn't matter what type of Raid you use, none of them provide backup. Raid provides Redundancy, which a photographer does not need. You should find out what backup is. All you are doing is wasting money and wearing out drives doing copies that are immediately out of date.
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davidgp

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2016, 01:06:09 am »

What year iMac do you have?  All the iMacs I've seen have a "door" on the bottom of machine for accessing the RAM.  Just loosen one screw and the "door" comes off.  It's been awhile since iMacs only had 2 RAM slots in them.


Probable not the once the OP has, but some of the new iMacs of 21,5 inches come with the same MacBook motherboard with the RAM soldered to it and not upgradable http://9to5mac.com/2015/10/16/ifixit-teardown-imac-21-retina-upgrades/


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BobShaw

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2016, 02:47:47 am »

some of the new iMacs of 21,5 inches come with the same MacBook motherboard with the RAM soldered to it and not upgradable
Wow, didn't realise they were soldering in RAM to save space on the new 21. Won't be a popular move.
27 inch still has slots though thankfully.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2016, 03:39:53 am »

Wow, didn't realise they were soldering in RAM to save space on the new 21. Won't be a popular move.
27 inch still has slots though thankfully.

That has been the case for at least four years.

Jeremy
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davidgp

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2016, 01:25:43 am »

Wow, didn't realise they were soldering in RAM to save space on the new 21. Won't be a popular move.
27 inch still has slots though thankfully.

I don't think it is to save space, I think it is more the fact that putting the same motherboard as the MacBook of 13 inches it is more economical, one product line of motherboards, with same design costs, for two types of computer


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graeme

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Re: Mac Pro for large Photoshop Editing Project
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2016, 06:15:42 am »

I'm using an iMac 5K with 32GB RAM, 256GB ssd for the OS / Apps & an external Thunderbolt ssd for large working files & PS scratch. I've got a 3.2 GB psb file open at the moment ( which weirdly shows up as 25GB in the Finder ) & I find performance perfectly acceptable.

I was considering a trashcan instead of the iMac but felt like I'd just be handing over a pile of cash for 2 high end graphics cards which would spend the next few years doing very little. ( & since the trashcan doesn't have any more internal storage options than the iMac I'd still have the same mess of external drives under my desk ).
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