Epson Rant

[Rand47]

I love Epson printers.  But I have to tell you that I feel like a second class citizen and I don't understand what the heck Epson is doing or why.

I recently "upgraded" from using a 4880 and R3000 to a new SC P800 and SC P600 printers.  I'm a Windows user.  Win 10 to be exact.

When Epson started touting their Legacy Papers I was excited. When the ICC profiles were released I downloaded the profiles for the P800, went to the P600 ICC profiles... NONE.  Emailed Epson.  Reply, "When we release the cut sheet sizes we'll release the ICC profiles for the P600."  Still no profiles.  I "chatted" with Epson today, no profiles and no information when, or even if, there might be profiles for the 600.

Add to this that Epson updated the driver for the P800 for Mac, and it now has the Legacy papers as proper media types in the driver.  NO updated driver for Windows, and no answer as to when, or if there ever will be.

So, I'm grumpy.  Windows users are second-class citizens in Epson-land and I don't like it.  Epson, if you're listening you need to know that your unresponsivenss has me re-thinking my purchases.

Rand

[disneytoy]

I have the 9890. Bought several 24' and 44' rolls of Legacy Baryta and Platine. You are right, no ICC profiles. I just used the Canson profiles no problem. Same paper. Not rally a big issue. I actually like to print Legacy Baryta as PremiumGlosdy 260. Puts down more ink.

This works fine. Even had a customers prints I did win an international prize last month.

[digitaldog]

Add to this that Epson updated the driver for the P800 for Mac, and it now has the Legacy papers as proper media types in the driver.  NO updated driver for Windows, and no answer as to when, or if there ever will be.

That might not be necessarily true in that what happens behind the scenes with the driver and media settings is not always clear. For example, we never originally had a media setting for Exhibition Fiber. We did have a profile supplied for that paper and were instructed to use Luster Media settings. Worked fine. The lack of actual ICC profiles for Epson papers is a justifiable complaint. Media settings? Perhaps not.

[Rand47]

I have the 9890. Bought several 24' and 44' rolls of Legacy Baryta and Platine. You are right, no ICC profiles. I just used the Canson profiles no problem. Same paper. Not rally a big issue. I actually like to print Legacy Baryta as PremiumGlosdy 260. Puts down more ink.

This works fine. Even had a customers prints I did win an international prize last month.

Apprciate the commets. Agreed, there's always a work-around, and that's what I'm doing.  But that's not my point.  Epson doesn't know who their customers are - at least in part.  And I think they hurt themselves that way.  I also can understand that at some point backward compatibility becomes an issue where there has to be a cut off.  But my issues are abou their newest printers and papers, for Pete's sake.

Rand

[Rand47]

That might not be necessarily true in that what happens behind the scenes with the driver and media settings is not always clear. For example, we never originally had a media setting for Exhibition Fiber. We did have a profile supplied for that paper and were instructed to use Luster Media settings. Worked fine. The lack of actual ICC profiles for Epson papers is a justifiable complaint. Media settings? Perhaps not.

Andrew,

No arguement there.  But there IS an updated driver for Mac, and there is NOT an updated driver for Windows.  That's my point. Windows users are not as important to Epson as Mac users.  At least that's what they are telegraphing to me.

Rand

[schertz]

I don't believe icc profiles are specific to operating system in any way... if you send me a PM I'll email you the 4 Legacy profiles i have for my P600 from the OS X install.

That doesn't detract from your rant, but at least you can be up and running.

MS

[Rhossydd]

No arguement there.  But there IS an updated driver for Mac, and there is NOT an updated driver for Windows.  That's my point. Windows users are not as important to Epson as Mac users.  At least that's what they are telegraphing to me.

On the other hand, maybe you're missing the point that the driver doesn't need updating. I think Epson do know who their users are and make big efforts to get the Windows drivers excellent from day one. Read back through Lula over the years and you'll find plenty of Mac using wringing their hands about driver issues between Macs and printers, but issues with Windows drivers are mercifully very rare indeed.
That there's no a specific media setting doesn't mean that the printer won't deliver optimum performance with the recommended paper setting anyway.

[Mark D Segal]

There are two technical issues regarding the printing aspect of this issue: (1) whether P800 profiles can be used in a P600, and (2) whether one needs an Epson Legacy Media Type to use Epson Legacy papers. The answer to question (1) is most likely yes and the answer to question (2) is most likely no.

To amplify a bit on (1): the inks and the core technology are the same. Try an 800 profile in the 600 and see whether the results are satisfactory.

To amplify a bit on (2): what needs to correspond for correct use of a profile is that the Media Type used to create the profile is the same as the Media Type selected for using the profile. As long as you can align those two variables, the fact that one driver version doesn't list the Legacy papers as Media Types is not necessarily a train-smash.

Turning to the commercial issue: I would be mightily surprised if Epson didn't have a clear idea of the relative sizes of the Windows and OSX markets for their printers, as well as a clear perception of the need to cater to both as necessary. That said, I have no idea why the publication of driver updates should not be pretty close to simultaneous and the contents not pretty close to identical between platforms in respect of main contents. Only they can explain that, and if they aren't, it's a PR issue they should think about.

[Rand47]

I don't believe icc profiles are specific to operating system in any way... if you send me a PM I'll email you the 4 Legacy profiles i have for my P600 from the OS X install.

That doesn't detract from your rant, but at least you can be up and running.

MS

PM sent!  Thanks for the offer, much apprecaited. 

Rand

[Rand47]

On the other hand, maybe you're missing the point that the driver doesn't need updating. I think Epson do know who their users are and make big efforts to get the Windows drivers excellent from day one. Read back through Lula over the years and you'll find plenty of Mac using wringing their hands about driver issues between Macs and printers, but issues with Windows drivers are mercifully very rare indeed.
That there's no a specific media setting doesn't mean that the printer won't deliver optimum performance with the recommended paper setting anyway.

Appreciate the comment.  And, of course, you're correct re the P800 in some ways.  On the other hand, It would be nice not to have to mess with paper thickness, feed choice conflicts, etc. generated by Epson's media type for the Legacy papers.

Rand

[Mark D Segal]

I don't believe icc profiles are specific to operating system in any way...
MS

I agree this *should* be true, but to be absolutely sure it is true one should know whether the CMMs in OSX and Windows are programmed to behave identically; and if that aren't, what differences to outcomes that could make. Users typically can't get under these hoods, so the easiest and harmless way of finding out is just to try and see.

[Rand47]

There are two technical issues regarding the printing aspect of this issue: (1) whether P800 profiles can be used in a P600, and (2) whether one needs an Epson Legacy Media Type to use Epson Legacy papers. The answer to question (1) is most likely yes and the answer to question (2) is most likely no.

To amplify a bit on (1): the inks and the core technology are the same. Try an 800 profile in the 600 and see whether the results are satisfactory.

To amplify a bit on (2): what needs to correspond for correct use of a profile is that the Media Type used to create the profile is the same as the Media Type selected for using the profile. As long as you can align those two variables, the fact that one driver version doesn't list the Legacy papers as Media Types is not necessarily a train-smash.

Turning to the commercial issue: I would be mightily surprised if Epson didn't have a clear idea of the relative sizes of the Windows and OSX markets for their printers, as well as a clear perception of the need to cater to both as necessary. That said, I have no idea why the publication of driver updates should not be pretty close to simultaneous and the contents not pretty close to identical between platforms in respect of main contents. Only they can explain that, and if they aren't, it's a PR issue they should think about.

Mark,

As always, you're helpful, calm, and authorative in your responses.  Thanks - but your'e ruining my RANT!      (This is an attempt at humor, in case it doesn't come across as such!)

Rand

[Mark D Segal]

Appreciate the comment.  And, of course, you're correct re the P800 in some ways.  On the other hand, It would be nice not to have to mess with paper thickness, feed choice conflicts, etc. generated by Epson's media type for the Legacy papers.

Rand

Rand, you shouldn't need to "mess". I have Legacy profiles that work fine from before Epson updated the Mac driver with those Legacy Paper Media Types included. All you need to do is create a new Saved Preset using the Media Type corresponding with that for which the profile was made (probably Premium Luster for the Baryta paper) and the paper thickness and platen gap better adapted to the Legacy paper. This works fine on my P800 and should on a P600.

And yes, I appreciate your humour! :-)

[digitaldog]

No arguement there.  But there IS an updated driver for Mac, and there is NOT an updated driver for Windows. 

On the Mac, Epson had a bug to fix. So I suspect that's why there's a newer version.

[schertz]

Appreciate the comment.  And, of course, you're correct re the P800 in some ways.  On the other hand, It would be nice not to have to mess with paper thickness, feed choice conflicts, etc. generated by Epson's media type for the Legacy papers.

Rand

I found it necessary to adjust the thickness and/or platen gap from the default for the legacy papers Media Type settings. I personally found that both the Baryta and Platine required an adjustment to thickness 4 and platen gap "wide". The platine is 17 mil thick (0.43 mm), so I don't know why the default Media Setting thickness is only 3...   YMMV

MS

PS. Reply sent

[digitaldog]

I agree this *should* be true, but to be absolutely sure it is true one should know whether the CMMs in OSX and Windows are programmed to behave identically; and if that aren't, what differences to outcomes that could make. Users typically can't get under these hoods, so the easiest and harmless way of finding out is just to try and see.

The CMM could be Apples or Adobe’s or MS's and they are not the same. But unless one runs into a bug in the CMM, the differences should be tiny (less than 1dE). ACE had Black Point Compensation which may or may not be used depending on the profile too.

[Mark D Segal]

I found it necessary to adjust the thickness and/or platen gap from the default for the legacy papers Media Type settings. I personally found that both the Baryta and Platine required an adjustment to thickness 4 and platen gap "wide". .........................

MS

PS. Reply sent

Yes, those settings are fine for me too.

[Mark D Segal]

I've been advised that the Legacy papers are included in the current P600/Windows driver combo package.

[Rand47]

I've been advised that the Legacy papers are included in the current P600/Windows driver combo package.

Mark,

Thank you!  This is correct.  When I asked the "utility" tab in the driver to check for updates, it shows none.  I've been checking frequently for months.
When I downloaded the driver combo package from Epson's web site, "that driver" indeed has the Legacy Papers included (while the P800 driver still does not, by the way).

I wonder why Epson's own driver utility for checking for new drivers for the P600 didn't know there was a newer version? 

So, for the record, I stand corrected re the P600.  But neither Epson's driver utility, nor the person I chatted with at Epson, knew anything about this.

Mark, may I have the phone number of whomever you talked to at Epson? 

Thanks again . . .
Rand
 

[Mark D Segal]

Ha ha! Actually the one or the other of the P800 drivers must have those profiles.