And so it continues....

[pegelli]

Hi Pieter, Have you ever fired a handgun? If so, which one? Maybe a 22?

Yes, but what has that to do with what happened in Nice? I wasn't there.

[RSL]

You have this idea that a handgun wouldn't have been able to stop that truck. I'd like to know which handguns you've fired and are familiar with.

[pegelli]

You have this idea that a handgun wouldn't have been able to stop that truck. I'd like to know which handguns you've fired and are familiar with.

Well, I'm not the only one in this thread, several of your countrymen in this thread agree with that as well.
And sorry, I've shot hand guns while living in and visiting the US, but unlike photo cameras I've shot in my life I don't remember which brand or caliber.
But let me turn the question around, if it took a multitude of bullets from heavy police guns to stop the truck how do you think a small hand gun fired by a non-professional shooter on a busy boulevard in the dark when multiple people weren't even aware what was happening would have stopped it sooner then the police did?

[tom b]

You have seen the photos of the truck. It took an awful lot of shots to stop the truck. Hey, about once a year a good guy stops a tragedy becoming a major tragedy.

However, don't think a gun protects your family, if you are a woman having a gun in your home can be more dangerous than not having one.

Just thinking,

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Well as part of et al (just call me Al) I'll respond.  Looking at the CDC latest figures the US has about 40,000 suicides a year.  So a good chunk of your average of about 31,000 firearm deaths are from suicide.

Hi,

Raising the suicide deaths by firearm issue is a deliberate discussion distraction from the real issue. However, the 21,334 suicides by firearms are 50% out of 42,773 total suicides by any method (according to 2014 reports). But that number is even dwarfed by the  84,258 annual non-fatal firearm injuries (in 2014). More guns tend to kill and hurt more people, not fewer.

Murder is a very small contributor to mortality.

Sure, but does that make even a single avoidable murder less important? And, e.g. obesity is much harder to control than irresponsible gun ownership, unless the latter is deliberately made more difficult (e.g. by blocking a vote to expand background checks and ban gun sales to those on the no-fly watch list, on June 22nd).

Now factor in that most gun deaths are done by criminals (murderers) and you realize that even if guns were illegal (like in France and Germany) bad people will get guns.  So all you are trying to do is disarm the good guys.

The thought that one will be able to defend oneself against an assault with a gun in such a stressful situation, is questionable to say the least (especially when facing a military grade automatic assault weapon). Trying to get the hell away from the spot is more likely to help.

Cheers,
Bart

[scyth]

You have this idea that a handgun wouldn't have been able to stop that truck. I'd like to know which handguns you've fired and are familiar with.

a broken clock shows the right time twice a day... even a lucky shot from a bb gun can kill a driver (say hit him in the eye @ close distance through an open window), but a hail of bullets from behind when it passed already might as well just increase the number of dead around  ...

[RSL]

You have seen the photos of the truck. It took an awful lot of shots to stop the truck. Hey, about once a year a good guy stops a tragedy becoming a major tragedy.

However, don't think a gun protects your family, if you are a woman having a gun in your home can be more dangerous than not having one.

Just thinking,

Sorry guys, it didn't "take an awful lot of shots to stop the truck." It only took one well-place shot. But several cops were firing on full-automatic, or at least as fast as they could, so there are a lot of bullet holes in the windshield. One well-trained guy with a 45 or even a 38 special or a powerful 9mm probably could have killed the driver.

And Tom, please give me the source of the statistics that say if you're a woman having a gun in the house can be more dangerous than not having one. You say you're "just thinking" that statistic and I'd guess that's about right, because such statistics don't exist. Figures don't lie, but liars figure, and I know there are plenty of liars cooking up such figures. It's true that accidents sometimes happen to people who don't know what they're doing with a gun, don't handle it correctly and don't store it safely. But you might want to look for statistics that tell you how many home invasions are aborted by women with guns or by their husbands with guns. It's a rather large number -- much larger than the number of gun accidents.

I know you guys would like to just throw up your hands and surrender, but these folks aren't gonna let you do that. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[scyth]

Hi Pieter, Have you ever fired a handgun? If so, which one? Maybe a 22?

exactly, now you suggest him to get a gun and start firing at will if he thinks that there is an attack happening 

[jfirneno]

The thought that one will be able to defend oneself against an assault with a gun in such a stressful situation, is questionable to say the least (especially when facing a military grade automatic assault weapon). Trying to get the hell away from the spot is more likely to help.

Cheers,
Bart

Whether it is questionable or not is case specific.  The point is having the option of trying to save yourself and others.  The majority of people in the US want that option.  The majority of people in Europe and Australia do not.  Good luck to them.  But when the killers come I know which option I'd like to have.  Imagine if one of the parishioners in the French church happened to have a gun and had put some holes in the men who murdered the priest.  That would be a happy ending.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Whether it is questionable or not is case specific.  The point is having the option of trying to save yourself and others.  The majority of people in the US want that option.  The majority of people in Europe and Australia do not.  Good luck to them.  But when the killers come I know which option I'd like to have.

A burglar is after money/laptop/phone/maybe a TV, not your life.

Cheers,
Bart

[jfirneno]

A burglar is after money/laptop/phone/maybe a TV, not your life.

Cheers,
Bart

I said killer not burglar.  When they come for you there's no substitute for a gun.  It's the great equalizer.  Even an 85 pound woman can stop a 250 lb maniac if she's trained.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I said killer not burglar.  When they come for you there's no substitute for a gun.  It's the great equalizer.  Even an 85 pound woman can stop a 250 lb maniac if she's trained.

Why would they come and kill you?
How many have you prevented from doing so?

I can think of some unlikely hypothetical cases as well, but in reality?
Sounds a bit like too much NRA Kool-aid ...

Cheers,
Bart

[scyth]

Even an 85 pound woman can stop a 250 lb maniac if she's trained.

even a toddler if he is lucky ... now I am all for training including very detailed regular background checks (say annually), regular psycho evaluation & drug testing (again annualy), fingerprining and DNA sample @ your cost and annual check by law enforcement that you still have the gun in your possession... if you want to own a gun - please own, but invest in that

[jfirneno]

Why would they come and kill you?
How many have you prevented from doing so?

I can think of some unlikely hypothetical cases as well, but in reality?
Sounds a bit like too much NRA Kool-aid ...

Hypothetical?  I've heard of a bunch of people in Orlando, Paris and Munich who know better, now.  But you wanted to know why some people want the right to defend themselves as they see fit.  That's why.  You can do as you see fit.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

A burglar is after money/laptop/phone/maybe a TV, not your life.

At this point, Bart, you start to sound desperately naive.

When I was in Russia, there was this team of burglars caught (ultimately). They explained that initially they would just tie people inside the house, but after one of those was able to identify one of them and he got caught, they simply decided that from then on it is much "safer" to kill everybody. And they did. Multiple times.

Many stories here in the states of rapes and murder after a robbery. These aren't your gentleman jewelry thief a la David Niven (The Pink Panther, 1963). Here, they are vicious, brutal criminals who see rape and murder after a break in as the job's fringe benefit.

[jfirneno]

You paint a wonderful picture of your country of choice.

I thank the Gods that I have absolutely no desire to visit or live in the USA.

I thank them too.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Gunman Shot After Trying to Rob Pokémon Go Players

An armed man was shot after he and an accomplice tried to rob a group of people playing Pokémon Go at a Las Vegas park.

A group of six people were at Big League Dreams park after 4 a.m. Monday playing the game when the man and a driver came up in an SUV and demanded their possessions at gunpoint, according to police. A player who has a concealed weapons permit pulled out his gun, and both sides exchanged fire, officials said.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

You paint a wonderful picture of your country of choice...

I've been here 12 years and have yet to see a gun (ok, did see it once, visiting my friend who is a former military) or experience violence.

My teenage daughter went to a shooting range and said it was pretty cool. She, however, has been a victim of a violent iPhone robbery by a black girl (caught and arrested on the spot).

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Geez, Slobodan, you felt the need to highlight she was a black girl?

Yes.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Gunman Shot After Trying to Rob Pokémon Go Players

I assume it is this same attempted robbery? Now everybody will have (anecdotal) evidence of this particular case to use as an excuse. And there are more interesting links on that page, like the Two Pokémon Go players that were shot at by a homeowner in Florida last week after being mistaken for burglars.

Good thing that the guy was trained enough to hit the perpetrator, or did he also shoot the other person in the Pokémon group? If not, would that person have been shot had there not been an exchange of gunfire? Details matter.

Another, somewhat puzzling fact is what were they doing there at 4:00 AM? Maybe summer holidays?
I understand that catching Pokémon is addictive, but at that hour?

In general, it's also not very wise to flaunt your phones, but hé, kids without parental guidance do stupid things. I see them walking, and on bicycles, here as well while they are oblivious to the traffic around them... At least they are unlikely to get robbed at gun point here, but with a knife they still might (although it's less likely that all of them would get hurt by a knife if they'd disperse).

Cheers,
Bart