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Author Topic: And so it continues....  (Read 59462 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2016, 09:11:33 am »

Slobodan,

You should know that the Europe is a Continent consists of many (~50) very different countries....

Thanks, Bart!

As an American, how would I know that? I can hardly find Europe on the map of the world. We only get baseball and (real) football news here, and only if something explodes over there, what you call Europe.

jfirneno

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2016, 09:22:16 am »

That would be the same authorities that tried initially to hide thousands of sexual assaults by refugees during the last New Year street celebrations?

Slobodan:

I misunderstood this forum.  You aren't perturbed by the unshakable adherence to the various versions of the progressive narrative on display in this and other threads and anything you say is completely negated.  It's what's called a stable state in physics.  I leave you all to enjoy.

Best regards,
John
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pegelli

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2016, 09:22:57 am »

That would be the same authorities that tried initially to hide thousands of sexual assaults by refugees during the last New Year street celebrations?
I think you forgot the wink again ;)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2016, 09:42:41 am »

As an American, how would I know that?

Slobodan, was it not you who told in one of the threads that you or your ancestors (as well as the surname) have former Servo-Croatian roots? If not, then I'm mistaken.

Quote
I can hardly find Europe on the map of the world. We only get baseball and (real) football news here, and only if something explodes over there, what you call Europe.

You are smarter than that ... ;)

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 10:12:40 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2016, 09:51:41 am »

Slobodan, was it not you who told in one of the threads that you or your ancestors (as well as the surname) have former Servo-Croatian roots?...

Ooops, I did it again (forgot the wink)  :)

Yes, I am a Serbian-American, born and raised in former Yugoslavia, lived in Russia (eight years, while working for American companies there), Spain (four), USA (12) and visited 30 other countries on three continents. And yes, that was sarcasm (in the previous post). In other words, I do not need a lecture of what Europe is.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 10:14:34 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2016, 09:57:32 am »

...They don't need to win elections...

Indeed, Rob... they crave a revolution (from the latest flag-burning event, organized by the Revolutionary Communist Party, during RNC - "Revolution... Nothing Less," it reads)

RSL

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #86 on: July 24, 2016, 10:15:17 am »

Hang in there Slobodan. They can't lay a glove on you.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #87 on: July 24, 2016, 10:43:43 am »

Today's Dilbert cartoon is not a bad summary of the state of the world.
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--
Robert

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #88 on: July 24, 2016, 11:27:56 am »

For the purpose of this debate and previous ones (which is mass shootings and gun control, by the way), it doesn't matter whether Europe is a continent, or whether it has five, 50, or 500 countries, or how different those countries are. What matters is that it has a single, unique characteristic among all of them: tight gun control. And yet...

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2016, 11:43:07 am »

For the purpose of this debate and previous ones (which is mass shootings and gun control, by the way), it doesn't matter whether Europe is a continent, or whether it has five, 50, or 500 countries, or how different those countries are. What matters is that it has a single, unique characteristic among all of them: tight gun control. And yet...

And yet what? What has that to do with mental instability, or discrimination, or religion, or social instability, or ...?

Really Slobodan, you should not 'forget' those smilies when you are not serious ...

Cheers,
Bart
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pegelli

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2016, 11:48:55 am »

And yet...
According to the graph in post # 70 of this thread it shows that in a lot of countries in Europe you have a 5-10 times lower chance (in homicides per capita) to be killed then in the US. Obviously there is no evidence on a connection to gun control and I'm sure there will be people who will point out the weakness in this statistical analysis but it still tells you something in the US is vastly different from a large number of other countries.
The table from the American Journal of Medicine gives more details
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 11:58:14 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2016, 12:03:10 pm »

And yet what? What has that to do with mental instability, or discrimination, or religion, or social instability, or ...?...

Nothing. And that was precisely my point.

"And yet..." was meant to mean that Europe has more mass shootings than the USA, in spite of much tighter gun control.

And I was dead serious.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #92 on: July 24, 2016, 12:12:16 pm »

Peter, you et al are again moving the goal post, i.e., the subject matter of this thread (and previous ones) - which is mass shootings.

As it was pointed before by John, when we start analyzing one aspect (mass shootings and gun control), you (rhetorical) switch to overall shootings. We start analyzing and breaking down overall shootings, you switch to terrorism, we start about that, you switch to mental issues, and on and on in circles we go.

"And yet..." in spite of much tighter control, mass shootings are happening in Europe at the same or higher rate than in the States, regardless of causes and modalities. In other words, tighter gun control, which is advocated ad nauseum here and elsewhere is NOT the answer.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #93 on: July 24, 2016, 12:14:25 pm »

...US is vastly different from a large number of other countries....

Yes.

pegelli

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2016, 12:24:37 pm »

Peter, you et al are again moving the goal post, i.e., the subject matter of this thread (and previous ones) - which is mass shootings.

As it was pointed before by John, when we start analyzing one aspect (mass shootings and gun control), you (rhetorical) switch to overall shootings. We start analyzing and breaking down overall shootings, you switch to terrorism, we start about that, you switch to mental issues, and on and on in circles we go.

"And yet..." in spite of much tighter control, mass shootings are happening in Europe at the same or higher rate than in the States, regardless of causes and modalities. In other words, tighter gun control, which is advocated ad nauseum here and elsewhere is NOT the answer.
Don't misunderstand me Slobodan. There is no et. al. here (I've mentioned that before in my discussion with John) I'm just giving you my personal opinion. I'm even agreeing with you that gun control is not the way to prevent homicides and mass shootings. The only thing my post pointed out is that in the US you have a higher probability to get killed by a firearm in a homicide or not by a firearm in a homicide then in several countries in North-West Europe. Whether that's by mass shootings or individual act I don't care that much, the people are just as dead. 
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pieter, aka pegelli

pegelli

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #95 on: July 24, 2016, 12:33:14 pm »

Yes.
Now the question is do you accept that? If yes, fine, every democracy can choose that for themselves. If you don't accept it what do you suggest your government does about it?
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pieter, aka pegelli

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #96 on: July 24, 2016, 12:58:09 pm »

Now the question is do you accept that? If yes, fine, every democracy can choose that for themselves. If you don't accept it what do you suggest your government does about it?

I do accept that. That is the price Americans are willing to pay for their freedom.

As for the government, I do not want them to do anything (other than closing a few loopholes, perhaps) - there lies a philosophical difference between the US and the nanny states of Europe. I do want them to do what their actual job is (rather than micromanaging individuals), i.e., creating a legislative environment conducive to a decent job creation, legalizing drugs (to take a criminal component out of it - responsible for about 50% of all crimes), and taking a better care of mentally ill.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2016, 01:26:34 pm »

I do accept that. That is the price Americans are willing to pay for their freedom.

You are not hearing the silent majority who are fed up with the lack of preventative action.

Preventing Gun Violence Without Just Talking About The Gun
| Nicole Hockley | TEDxUniversityofNevada.

Cheers,
Bart
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pegelli

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2016, 01:41:32 pm »

You are not hearing the silent majority who are fed up with the lack of preventative action.

Preventing Gun Violence Without Just Talking About The Gun
| Nicole Hockley | TEDxUniversityofNevada.

Cheers,
Bart
Bart, how sure are you it's a silent majority
Don't misunderstand me, I'm as sick of any mass shooting, terrorist act and homicide as you are and every person killed is one too many.
But if there is really a majority to tackle the problem in the US why doesn't that get reflected in the election results?
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pieter, aka pegelli

pegelli

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Re: And so it continues....
« Reply #99 on: July 24, 2016, 01:48:27 pm »

I do accept that. That is the price Americans are willing to pay for their freedom.
Well, it wouldn't be the price I would like to pay for my freedom, so the conclusion is we've both probably ended up in the country that serves our interest on this aspect best.
I don't know why you are using the derogatory term "nanny state" to countries with gun control. I think the majority over here is OK with more gun control. Nothing "nanny" about that, just executing the will of the people (as in the US).
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pieter, aka pegelli
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