And so it continues....

[Justinr]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cdc_1469207830

Another shooting in Germany with 11 feared dead.

Edit, another report says just three dead, but that's still three too many.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Our sympathies are with Germany, of course.

It does show, however, that mass shootings can happen regardless of whether a country has strict or lax gun controls.

[Manoli]

It does show, however, that mass shootings can happen regardless of whether a country has strict or lax gun controls.

Slobodan,
 
Let's keep the distinction between gun crime and terrorism/acts-of-war , shall we ?  In the meantime a second, distinct police op is underway in the centre. It's too early to say what the real nature of these latest incidents are - so suggest a modicum of restraint and empathy.

Edit:
Apparently now at least 6 dead and and the elite anti-terror unit GSG9 called upon.

[Justinr]

Slobodan,
 
Let's keep the distinction between gun crime and terrorism/acts-of-war , shall we ?  In the meantime a second, distinct police op is underway in the centre. It's too early to say what the real nature of these latest incidents are - so suggest a modicum of restraint and empathy.

Edit:
Apparently now at least 6 dead and and the elite anti-terror unit GSG9 called upon.

+1


There is also talk of the gunmen being from the far right, this being the anniversary of Anders Breivik's massacre in Norway has not gone unremarked upon.

[RSL]

Let's keep the distinction between gun crime and terrorism/acts-of-war , shall we ?

And exactly what the hell is the distinction? You're just as dead in either case and just as defenseless without a weapon.

[Zorki5]

Let's keep the distinction between gun crime and terrorism/acts-of-war , shall we ?

IMO you're doing your case a disservice using "arguments" like that.

Dallas massacre for you is a gun crime, but 3 men killed in a shopping center is an act of war/terrorism? What kind of logic is that?

Once again, I have no firm opinion as whether guys should be sold freely in the US. I do have firm opinion about Russia though: guns should not be traded freely here.

And I have firm opinion about one more thing: if you are going to discuss something on a public forum, be prepared to back your opinion with facts and logic, do not just stubbornly repeat your belief until everyone is sick and tired of it.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

And exactly what the hell is the distinction?

Hi Russ,

How about motive ?

You're just as dead in either case and just as defenseless without a weapon.

Obviously, but it makes a big difference in case one wants to find a way of preventing the next shooting. Identifying the root cause, may allow to solve it better/faster.

Maybe that's the big difference between some of our cultures. Some want to prevent new tragedies from happening, and others just pile up more guns which increases the likelihood of more tragedies happening. Pro-active versus Reactive. It would be fully consistent with what I was taught during a multi-day Cross Cultural Skill training. And the cultural differences within Europe are also huge.

Cheers,
Bart

[Tim Lookingbill]

I've started to think about a way to sooth children seeing this on the news by showing them a globe of the Earth pointing to where each shooting is happening and how far away it is in comparison to the entire planet so they don't think it's going to happen to them. Then I'ld show them Google maps satellite view of the exact location and zoom out just to further establish a perspective.

These shootings are a tragedy for sure and the lives not to be made small, but living in fear can ruin more lives from a global sense.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I've started to think about a way to sooth children seeing this on the news by showing them a globe of the Earth pointing to where each shooting is happening and how far away it is in comparison to the entire planet so they don't think it's going to happen to them. Then I'ld show them Google maps satellite view of the exact location and zoom out just to further establish a perspective.

These shootings are a tragedy for sure and the lives not to be made small, but living in fear can ruin more lives from a global sense.

+1

Cheers,
Bart

[Manoli]

Dallas massacre for you is a gun crime, but 3 men killed in a shopping center is an act of war/terrorism? What kind of logic is that?

It would help if you read what I actually wrote.
You must have missed the part ' It's too early to say what the real nature of these latest incidents are. '

Jumping to conclusions and warped logic seem to be all yours.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...Identifying the root cause, may allow to solve it better/faster....

Of course.

In the last several mass shootings in the States, about which we just had 18 pages of discussion, the root cause was terrorism (Baton Rouge, Dallas, Orlando, San Bernardino). And yet you guys kept harping on about gun control. Misidentifying the cause as guns, instead of terrorism, surely ain't going to solve it better/faster.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...the real nature..

Again, does it matter? It was a mass shooting, the same subject we've been discussing in another thread. In the U.S. case, you (rhetorical) argued that it doesn't matter what was the real nature, whether guns were legal or illegal, crime, terrorism or suicide, all it mattered is... (lax) gun control. Now, in your case, all of a sudden (tight) gun control doesn't matter, but the "real nature" does!?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Of course.

In the last several mass shootings in the States, about which we just had 18 pages of discussion, the root cause was terrorism (Baton Rouge, Dallas, Orlando, San Bernardino).

No it wasn't, it was AFAIK an act out of utter frustration. What you thought was the cause is in fact just another symptom, and that the problem lies much deeper within.

And yet you guys kept harping on about gun control. Misidentifying the cause as guns, instead of terrorism, surely ain't going to solve it better/faster.

Guns are symptoms as well (providing a false sense of security), the root cause is deeper.

As for this thread, we do not know enough details yet, although I saw a video clip where (one of) the perpetrator(s) was heard discussing with presumably a spectator of the developing scene before it went horribly wrong. The spectator said in German, "you're an ass-hole, you can't go shooting people in a mall", and the perpetrator said, "I will draw my gun", and "I am a German, I haven't done anything, shut your trap". Or words to that effect. I'd have to see/hear it again to be more accurate.

Cheers,
Bart

[scyth]

Of course.

In the last several mass shootings in the States, about which we just had 18 pages of discussion, the root cause was terrorism (Baton Rouge, Dallas, Orlando, San Bernardino). And yet you guys kept harping on about gun control. Misidentifying the cause as guns, instead of terrorism, surely ain't going to solve it better/faster.

how much was terrorism here = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States ?

[Alan Klein]

Politicians are conflating terrorism with the availability of guns like stopping drunk driving by getting rid of cars.  If guns weren't available, terrorists would use bombs or trucks as in Nice, a method which apparently kills more people than guns.  We have to concentrate on defeating the terrorist.  But of course the politicians don't want to discuss that because then they would have to admit they're not doing much.  So they "spin" the issue into gun control and distract the voter.  Would the people in Paris, Nice and Munich be alive today if there were no guns or would they be alive if there were no terrorists?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

No it wasn't, it was AFAIK an act out of utter frustration...

Oh, dear Lord!

"A rose by any other name..."

Ok, let's use that term. So, Charlie Hebdo, Paris, Nice, etc. must have been simply cases of "utter frustration" too? They must have bee utterly frustrated that the West was not getting how just their cause is.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Oh, dear Lord!

"A rose by any other name..."

Ok, let's use that term. So, Charlie Hebdo, Paris, Nice, etc. must have been simply cases of "utter frustration" too? They must have bee utterly frustrated that the West was not getting how just their cause is.

No, other issues were the root cause. For example, the Belgians who were involved in the Paris attacks were already convicted criminals in Belgium, and were marginalized youths without any future, and they used the situation in Syria as justification for their acts, making themselves feel important by supporting a goal they knew little about. They were easy targets for ISIS to recruit.

And the other attacks have all different root causes, although they all finally chose the situation in Syria as justification for their acts.

Cheers,
Bart

[digitaldog]

These shootings are a tragedy for sure and the lives not to be made small, but living in fear can ruin more lives from a global sense.

Fear sells. You're absolutely right Tim and showing the globe as you did helps put things into perspective. Meanwhile, in just the US, well over 30,000 people die a year from the flu!

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Irony:

[tom b]

Hey, just a reminder as to why I started the last post. Australia had just marked the anniversary of the Port Arthur massacre and twenty years with strong gun control and not a mass murder.

The original post.

"Dallas massacre

What does it take for Americans to see that their gun laws are f**ked up?

Depressed,

Yep, it was about gun control, it had nothing to do with terrorism. Don't conflate the two. America does a great job of controlling homeland terrorism. It also does a lousy job of stopping its citizens from shooting each other, particularly mass shootings.

Cheers,