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Author Topic: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?  (Read 3244 times)

Ernst Dinkla

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Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« on: July 19, 2016, 07:27:46 am »

Not everyone in this forum reads the color management forum or the LuLa articles.

Before wasting time and media check this thread and the article that summarizes the issues;

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=111358.0

https://luminous-landscape.com/whither-adobe/

The article is FREE , a wise decision of the LuLa staff. Probably enough people that wasted money already on this color issue.

Not me BTW, Windows and Qimage user.



Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 09:07:13 am by Ernst Dinkla »
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MHMG

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2016, 08:56:45 am »

A few weeks ago, I told everyone here I was no longer going to be posting in this forum because I really needed to recover some personal time....the best laid plans of mice and men :)

I poured my new found extra time into making some new prints of my personal photography, and also beginning some new light fade tests. Both endeavors depend on accurately printed color and a stable color managed workflow.  I immediately stepped waist deep into dozens of man hours of time trying to figure out why my Mac's color management pipeline was now seriously broken. I could get accurate color only on my iPF8300 using the 16 bit plugin.  All other printers I have in my studio use the OEM supplied driver, and I could not print to any one of them with decent color accuracy out of the latest version of Photoshop CC. Say it ain't so, Adobe!  Application managed color from PS has always been more trustworthy than printer managed color. Not!

I concur entirely with all of Mark S.'s findings. With the Epson driver for my SC P600, the problem is most easily seen in the blues and magentas, essentially a reversal of the classic blue-turns-purple problem where blues and purplish blues are now losing magenta and moving much more cyan in hue, with massive delta E variances just as Mark S. reported. It's a rather insidious problem for an Epson user because to the casual observer, the lower chroma colors which dictate the overall color balance of the print aren't seriously whacked, and most printed images don't look so obviously wrong that one would suspect anything other than just a poor quality ICC profile to be to blame. Probably part of the reason why Adobe engineers didn't spot the issue themselves.

But wait, there's more!  On the Latest Canon printers (Pro-1, Pro-1000, etc), the color errors manifest differently and are more clearly messed up. Even an untrained observer will find the print quality seriously messed up.  Color gets truly weird and muddier, almost as if the color pipeline is assigning an sRGB profile on top of the paper profile's conversion or some such nonsense. Anyway, here are my current workarounds:

1) For older Canon imageprograph printers like 8100, 8300, 8400, etc. use the Canon 16 bit plugin. Always worked great and still does.

2) for newer Canon models like Pro-1000, use the Canon Studio Print Pro plugin for PS or standalone version. Interestingly enough, it hands the data off to the regular Canon OEM driver, but manages to bypass the current Adobe PS (and presumably LR) data corruption nonsense. This result was clear proof to me that it's an Adobe software problem, not a new printer driver issue.

3) For Epson and other printers, convert the image to the appropriate destination profile, then save as 8 bit tif and "print as color target" out of the Colorsync utility (CSU). Sadly enough, CSU also has a nasty bug where it can't currently print a 16 bit tif file correctly (in my tests, it turned media whitepoint light gray for 16 bit but not 8 bit data). You have to use 8 bit to get around that nonsense. Alternatively, you can let CSU make the color conversion, but you will get the apple CMM not the Adobe CMM if you do that. Not a big deal, but a subtle thing to note. Mac's Preview app can also be used as a safe printer pipeline, but in Apple's typical "dumb it down for the consumer" world, Preview loses the rendering intent options that you have available in CSU.

Even though I've had twenty five years of color management experience, I still feel like a poster child for all that ails a color managed workflow :'(  It never ceases to amaze me how often and how easily this technology gets stomped on by OS updates, or priinter drivers, and sad to say, even Adobe engineers who really should know better. No wonder photographers struggle so much to master this printing technology. It's a mine field.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

 


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Mark D Segal

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 09:12:47 am »

Useful corroborating observations Mark, and interesting to learn the outcomes are different (but still incorrect) from the Canon Pro-1000 etc. Anyhow, this is now all on the way to resolution as you may have seen from the other relevant threads and Kevin's Note under my article. For the time being the easiest and most reliable workaround is to use the penultimate version of Photoshop (2015.1.2) available from the Adobe wesbite.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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MHMG

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2016, 09:17:15 am »

UPDATE: The problem may well lie in the Adobe "send 16 bit data" pipeline.  I need to do some more confirming studies, but this morning when I unchecked the "send 16 bit data" option in the PS printer dialogue box, and tried another print,  I got proper color output on my Epson P600.  Rechecked the 16 bit option and the color shifting came back.  Maybe Mark S. and a few others can try replicating this finding.  It would also explain why MS Windows users with no 16 bit printer pipeline aren't experiencing the problem :)

Given the fact that CSU can't print 16 bit tif files properly, either, it may still be an Apple/Adobe issue not just an Adobe issue.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 09:28:32 am by MHMG »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2016, 09:19:59 am »

UPDATE: The problem may well lie in the Adobe "send 16 bit data" pipeline.  I need to do some more confirming studies, but this morning when I unchecked the "send 16 bit data" option in the PS printer dialogue box, and tried another print,  I got proper color output on my Epson PS600.  Rechecked the 16 bit option and the color shifting came back.  Maybe Mark S. and a few others can try replicating this finding.  It would also explain why MS Windows users with no 16 bit printer pipeline aren't experiencing the problem :)

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

There's no need - Adobe is onto this issue and they can sleuth what's going on under the hood in much more depth than we can.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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MHMG

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2016, 09:38:41 am »

There's no need - Adobe is onto this issue and they can sleuth what's going on under the hood in much more depth than we can.

Fair enough, but some of us don't want to step back to previous versions of Adobe software in the meantime, and saving out files to print in auxiliary software is also not particularly convenient.  Not checking the "send 16 bit data" seems like a pretty quick fix for many of us Mac users until Adobe releases an update next month. Plus, passing this 16 versus 8 bit observation onto Adobe, if it turns out to be correct, might save the engineers a few man hours of testing to find the root cause.  Just sayin...

best,
Mark
http://Http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2016, 09:48:11 am »

Sure, whatever works best for each user.....
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 09:59:00 am »

UPDATE: The problem may well lie in the Adobe "send 16 bit data" pipeline.
The problem with the current releases (Photoshop 17.0 / 2015.5, LR 2015.6) is that you get double-color-managed. Photoshop or LR converts to the profile you selected, and then because of the Adobe bug, the driver attempts to convert from "generic RGB" (or sRGB) to whatever it thinks should be the paper profile.
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Schewe

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 12:23:19 pm »

This should be called "Adobe-Gate".

It is unconscionable that they would allow this to happen.

BAdobe.

Hum, or maybe BAD Apple? Seems this isn't a problem on Windows...so, while some people may think they know something and blame Adobe, some people may know they know something and let me tell you that Adobe is getting an unfair share of the blame in this "Gate". Yes, it's new releases of Adobe's products that were changed at Apple's requirement and yes, testing didn't catch this before it went out the door.

My bad...I didn't specifically test the new versions by printing targets or reprinting images I've previously printed. So, I didn't figure out there was a problem till other people discovered it. So, maybe you want to call it Schewe-Gate?

Due to the efforts of some people the problem has been identified and will be corrected. If you want to assign blame, you can do so elsewhere. LuLa is about problem solving not assessing blame by people who don't really know what went on.
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rdonson

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 12:41:47 pm »

Jeff, as you say there's no sense in pointing fingers.  Adobe and MS took different approaches to printing paths.  I have no idea the merits of one over the other but I doubt seriously I'll ever return to Windows. 

That said, it's Apple's bad if they didn't clearly document this for developers and its Adobe's bad if they weren't paying attention.  Just sayin'

Now, let's just wait patiently for the software update to fix it.

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Ron

digitaldog

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2016, 01:06:26 pm »

In my testing on the latest version of OS X as of yesterday, Apple's Preview and ColorSync printed 'correctly' (very similar to) Photoshop CS6 which is my 'control' for legacy printing. If Apple was involved, they didn't update their software to produce the print bug.
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2016, 01:15:53 pm »

Yes, it's new releases of Adobe's products that were changed at Apple's requirement and yes, testing didn't catch this before it went out the door.

Due to the efforts of some people the problem has been identified and will be corrected.

Yep - poor taste on my part.  My apologies for over-reacting and tastelessly jumping to conclusions.

It is true that certain people here, (Mark S, and Andrew R) have done excellent work figuring out issues and contributing positively to help solve the problem.

Mea Culpa.  Chastisement accepted Mr. Schewe, even though slightly heavy-handed...

-Mark
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Mark Lindquist
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Mac OS and print color issues with your Adobe CC software?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 06:03:22 am »

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=111358.160
last page

In the latest Lightroom CC for Mac it is fixed, not yet for Photoshop.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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