The Turkish Military take over.

[Justinr]

Not sure of your point.  China is  a military dictatorship. Turkey is not.  If I recall correctly, Chinese soldiers shot  protestors by the hundreds.  It was called the Tiananmen Square Massacre.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989  If the Chinese people had guns, maybe they would be able to throw out their dictators.  Certainly in every dictatorship, the first thing the leaders do is take away the guns.  That's why the Founder of America insisted in our Constitution that citizens have the right to keep and bear arms.  Your other point about where Erdogan is going I agree with.  And once it happens, the unarmed people won't be able to do anything about it any more than the Venezuelans can.

That view of Turkey might well require revision now.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Ask Edward Snowdon about that.

You mean the chap who chooses to live now in the bastion of freedom and democracy that is Russia?

Jeremy

[Alan Klein]

...That arming the citizens is some sort of guarantee against dictatorships is pure fantasy. In an actual civil war, they would't stand a chance. Dictators or not, one of the best things any leader could do for his people is take the guns away! As I've said ad nauseam but still seems beyond many heads, the sole function of a gun is to deal in death. Period. It can not be compared to accidents/killings with cars, airplanes, motorboats, motorcycles, runaway horses nor even bats or dogs with rabies: guns stand separately as single-purpose products. Effing about with statistics in vain attempts to cloud the issue might work for some, but anyone with the ability - or will - to see the truth can not avoid the reality of what a gun does, to animals or to people.

Rob...

Rob:  It's not fantasy.  The American Constitution has the 2nd Amendment just for that purpose.  No other.  Americans are willing so far to put up with the killings that guns do to protect themselves from future illegal governments.  Foreigners should run their countries as they wish.  In the meanwhile, when and if we're ready to change it, the American Constitution can be modified. 

[Alan Klein]

China is not a military dictatorship.

If you want to know more about the Chinese government, read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_China

That's a distinction without a difference.  You're not reading all of the Wikipedia article you referenced.  The military is run by the Communist Party that is run by it's Paramount Leader Xi Jinping.  All the military leaders are in the Communist Party same as the Paramount leader.  The Communist Party uses the military to defend its unitary power and enforce it's will.  As stated in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_China#Paramount_Leader  The legal power of the Communist Party is guaranteed by the PRC constitution and its position as the supreme political authority in the PRC is realised through its comprehensive control of the state, military, and media.[1] According to a prominent government spokesman:


We will never simply copy the system of Western countries or introduce a system of multiple parties holding office in rotation; although China’s state organs have different responsibilities, they all adhere to the line, principles and policies of the party.[2]


 Paramount leader

Power is concentrated in the Paramount leader, currently Xi Jinping, who heads the three most important political and state offices: He is General Secretary of the Communist Party and of the Central Committee and Chairman of the Central Military Commission and also the President. Recently, experts have observed growing limitations to the Paramount leader's de facto control over the government.[5]

Central Military Commission (China)

The Central Military Commission exercises the command and control of the People's Liberation Army and is supervised by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress. The state CMC is nominally considered the supreme military policy-making body and its chairman, elected by the National People's Congress, is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. In reality, command and control of the PLA, however, still resides with the Central Military Commission of the Chinese Communist Party Central Committee. Currently the Chairman of the Central Military Commission is Xi Jinping and the Vice Chairmen are Fan Changlong and Xu Qiliang.
 

[Tarnash]

Returning to the OP:  The attempted coup, if that is indeed what it was, raises many questions about who knew what, when and about what is really going on. 
Turkey is a member of NATO and a strategically vital ally of the West. The Turks have well trained, well armed and highly capable armed forces that have, for many years, worked in close liaison/co-operation with the armed forces of other NATO countries.  My point being: this is not an isolated, remote, obscure or in any way insignificant country.  Which makes it difficult to believe that this `coup' came out of the blue. And, if we (the West) didn't know anything about it, then what does that say about both our intelligence services and the nature of our alliance with the Turks.  Alternatively, if we did know something about it, then what did we (the West) do, or try to do, to help the situation.  And what do our actions or inactions tell us about our Governments, foreign policy and the alliances we depend on/trust for our security.
Some meaningful analysis (as opposed to the largely meaningless speculation that appears to be dominating media coverage at present) would be really helpful.
   

[Rob C]

Rob:  It's not fantasy.  The American Constitution has the 2nd Amendment just for that purpose. No other.  Americans are willing so far to put up with the killings that guns do to protect themselves from future illegal governments.  Foreigners should run their countries as they wish.  In the meanwhile, when and if we're ready to change it, the American Constitution can be modified.

Alan, you have to consider context, relativity and era.

A few blunderbusses and squirrel guns don't match up with the reality of military-grade weaponry that can, in some states, be legally paraded down the street as you go shopping.

If that doesn't strike you, in the 21st Century, as even slightly crazy, then nothing ever will.

Rob C

[Jim Pascoe]

Alan, you have to consider context, relativity and era.

A few blunderbusses and squirrel guns don't match up with the reality of military-grade weaponry that can, in some states, be legally paraded down the street as you go shopping.

If that doesn't strike you, in the 21st Century, as even slightly crazy, then nothing ever will.

Rob C

I quite agree Rob.  And to make it worse, should there ever be an anti-government breakdown of law and order in the USA and the population decides to take up arms, you can be fairly certain that there would be a number of factions with differing agendas and it would end being a complete disaster.

Jim

[Alan Klein]

You mean like the American Civil War of 1861-1865?  600,000 Americans died.   Would it not have happened if private weapons were not available?   

[stamper]

You mean like the American Civil War of 1861-1865?  600,000 Americans died.   Would it not have happened if private weapons were not available?   

You seem to be a republican revolutionary? Guns are your only answer. Do you own one,or more than one?

[Justinr]

Returning to the OP:  The attempted coup, if that is indeed what it was, raises many questions about who knew what, when and about what is really going on. 
Turkey is a member of NATO and a strategically vital ally of the West. The Turks have well trained, well armed and highly capable armed forces that have, for many years, worked in close liaison/co-operation with the armed forces of other NATO countries.  My point being: this is not an isolated, remote, obscure or in any way insignificant country.  Which makes it difficult to believe that this `coup' came out of the blue. And, if we (the West) didn't know anything about it, then what does that say about both our intelligence services and the nature of our alliance with the Turks.  Alternatively, if we did know something about it, then what did we (the West) do, or try to do, to help the situation.  And what do our actions or inactions tell us about our Governments, foreign policy and the alliances we depend on/trust for our security.
Some meaningful analysis (as opposed to the largely meaningless speculation that appears to be dominating media coverage at present) would be really helpful.
   

Excellent questions and I have seen it noted several times that the US appeared somewhat casual about the coup which proves nothing but it does leave any denial of their involvement open to doubt. Noting that Turkey has now turned itself into an elected dictatorship with the dismissal of the judiciary and the arrest of journalists  it must also be asked if they have any future role in NATO, especially if the reports are true that they cut the power supplies to US bases. I appreciate that the bases are quite capable of providing their own electricity but that's not the point.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Excellent questions and I have seen it noted several times that the US appeared somewhat casual about the coup which proves nothing but it does leave any denial of their involvement open to doubt. Noting that Turkey has now turned itself into an elected dictatorship with the dismissal of the judiciary and the arrest of journalists  it must also be asked if they have any future role in NATO, especially if the reports are true that they cut the power supplies to US bases. I appreciate that the bases are quite capable of providing their own electricity but that's not the point.

One of the strange things about this supposed coup, is that (according to experts, like Edward Luttwak) is was so poorly executed.

However, it did provide Erdogan with a lot of support to remove critical opposition:
So far:
    103 generals and admirals arrested,
    2,389 soldiers detained,
    2,745 judges and prosecutors detained,
    8,777 Interior Ministry officials suspended,
just like he 'purged' the News and press agencies before, and stripped members of parliament from their political immunity. And given the speed at which this is done, the lists were apparently ready to use.
The military are apparently being prosecuted by civil judges, not a military court.

In addition, the people have been mobilized to report anyone who doesn't support his agenda or is critical of the President. Embassies in foreign countries already issued similar instructions to the Turks living in those countries a month or so earlier.

Lot's of questions will remain unanswered.

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

You seem to be a republican revolutionary? Guns are your only answer. Do you own one,or more than one?

I'm not a revolutionary.  I believe in the Constitution and when I was in the USAF I swore to uphold and support it as do every elected and appointed governmental official and member of the US military.  And no, I don't own a gun and never have.  But I support other Americans' rights to own and bear them and would do the same if push came to shove. 

[Alan Klein]

Erdogan is like the Islamist Egyptian Morsi.  He's going to be a problem for Turks, Americans, NATO and others. 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

On that issue we agree. The good thing that as long there is a democracy he can  loose next election. In the Morsi case I would say there was doubt if there would be another election.

There are a few problems with democracy, though:

• The wrong man/group may win. Both Morsi and Erdogan may belong that group. There was also a guy called Adolf in Germany…
• What are the alternatives. If you need to choose between a scoundrel and a failure?

:-( Argh... :-(

Erik

Erdogan is like the Islamist Egyptian Morsi.  He's going to be a problem for Turks, Americans, NATO and others.

[scyth]

Noting that Turkey has now turned itself into an elected dictatorship with the dismissal of the judiciary and the arrest of journalists  it must also be asked if they have any future role in NATO

did NATO ever suspend Turkey before (with several military coups in the history) ?

[Photog-x]

From the news:
"Shouts of “Allahu Akbar” and sermons blaring from speakers continue to echo throughout the cosmopolitan districts of Istanbul in the wake of Friday’s failed military coup, creating a “surreal” scene and stoking fears a nation that remained proudly secular for the last century could be hurtling down the path to full-blown Islamic rule."

Hide your Marlboro's, vodka and girly mags.  No more 'fashion' photography guys.  Quit it.  Ladies...please proceed to the local burka-mart and get yourself a nice black cover-up. 

Waiting for someone who enjoys liberty to explain why it's good that the wanna-be dictator/religious leader wasn't taken out during the half-hearted coup attempt.  You know, those guys should have fought for the coup as if their life depended on it...because it probably does.  One poor soul already lost his head on the bridge.  All the photos of the arrested appear as if they've 'accidentally' fallen down on their face a few times on the way to jail.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... No more 'fashion' photography guys.  Quit it.  Ladies...please proceed to the local burka-mart and get yourself a nice black cover-up...

They have a fine example to follow, the new Muslim mayor of London, who just banned photographs in bikinis 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

They have a fine example to follow, the new Muslim mayor of London, who just banned photographs in bikinis 

Banned, for the photographers, or the models?

Cheers,
Bart

[Justinr]

did NATO ever suspend Turkey before (with several military coups in the history) ?

Things, they might be a'changin

Turkey coup could threaten country's Nato membership, suggests John Kerry

State Department says Nato is monitoring how the Turkish government responds to the failed coup. Members of the alliance are required to 'uphold democracy, including tolerating diversity'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-could-threaten-countrys-nato-membership-john-kerry-warns-a7142491.html

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

As the events develop, it more and more looks like another Reichstag fire.