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Author Topic: What would it take for Trump to win?  (Read 37454 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 11:21:11 am »

Luckily, it was people, not RNC, that put a legitimate candidate.

Correction, it was part of corporate America, not ordinary people. The people were offered a sponsored choice from an odd pre-selection of candidates. A recommended education about the USA electoral system, it's benefits, shortcomings, and cures, can be found here (the TED-talk version is free, and short enough, maybe even for youths with short attention spans).

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:34:51 am by BartvanderWolf »
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jfirneno

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 11:51:25 am »

Correction, it was part of corporate America, not ordinary people.

Correction, corporate America put up Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton (either one would be fine for them).  Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders put up Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.  Each for his own (and equally idiosyncratic) reasons wants to be president.  But the corporations are looking for someone who is willing to toe their globalist line.  For their own reasons these two were not.  Now Trump may be as bad a president as is possible but if you're looking to give the corporate party leaders (dems and reps) a thumb in the eye, Trump is the only choice left.   
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diuser

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2016, 12:09:19 pm »

The man makes me groan, the woman makes me puke. Groaning is better than puking.
If there are more people like me Trump will win.
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MattBurt

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2016, 12:20:47 pm »

Yeah 1930's Germany is the place to look. Hopefully we won't get what it takes, not just because of the disaster that would be for the nation and the world but also for the disasters it would take to convince people it was a good idea to elect him in the first place.

The right has done a great job of making Clinton look bad and on some points she also helped. But their efforts to undermine the opposition were their first priority and they didn't put enough resources into coming up with their own good candidate. The reality is she isn't as bad as she has been portrayed and IMO her worst quality is being a career politician. The conspiracy theories are just that. To me and a lot of voters that's a lot better than the alternative. But we will see in November. I hope this election doesn't make me regret becoming a US citizen!

As for free stuff, it's not really free if we are collectively paying for it. I'm tired of billionaires getting "free stuff" while the underprivileged are being stepped on. And no, I don't consider myself among the underprivileged but one thing that stuck with me from my Catholic upbringing is we are (or should be) obligated to care for the poor. I'd much rather my tax dollars go to people who need them rather than the greedy who are just trying to amass an even bigger fortune.

All the support for Bernie has really put pressure on Clinton and made her a better candidate. She is having to up her game and at least try to appear a little less cozy with corporate America which I see as a positive step. His endorsement shows me that he can face reality and what he wants is what is in the best interest of the American people.
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Otto Phocus

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2016, 12:41:33 pm »

The RNC was faced with a difficult problem of what do to about Trump.

If they ignored him, Trump would run as an independent and the RNC remembered how that worked with Perot.

So borrowing from LBJ's dictum about tents and urination, they agreed to allow Trump to run as a GOP potential candidate.  What they were hoping for was that Trump would lose quickly in the primaries and they would be done with him.  It must have been a shocker when Trump's numbers kept growing.  I bet they did not expect that.

Then the RNC was faced with a different problem of what to do about Trump.  After a good showing in the polls and the primaries, they could not just dump him.  That would alienate a lot of the GOP base.

They do have the option of nominating a second candidate but neither party has ever done that and it would be very risky.

I wonder how many in the RNC wished they had just let him go and run as an independent.  Could it be worse than this?

Hillary will probably be elected and Trump just makes the GOP look even more silly.

I wonder if after this, the GOP will just be the teabaggers and another conservative party will grow out of the ashes. If not the GOP has a steep PR hill to overcome.

But the GOP did it to themselves.  I did not change, my party did.

I work with a lot of conservatives... it is kinda a job requirement where I work.  Only one of my co-workers is actually voting for Trump.  The rest are voting against Clinton.
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jfirneno

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2016, 12:43:02 pm »

The man makes me groan, the woman makes me puke. Groaning is better than puking.
If there are more people like me Trump will win.

Aptly phrased.  I'm hoping the ghost of Ronald Reagan finds Trump in the White House and kicks his butt until he agrees to actually read the Constitution.  Then maybe he'll know what he is supposed to be doing.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2016, 12:48:17 pm »

Correction, it was part of corporate America, not ordinary people. The people were offered a sponsored choice from an odd pre-selection of candidates. A recommended education about the USA electoral system, it's benefits, shortcomings, and cures, can be found here (the TED-talk version is free, and short enough, maybe even for youths with short attention spans).

Cheers,
Bart

Bart, I am sometimes surprised by the condescending  and patronizing tone coming from some non-Americans. Perhaps I shouldn't be (surprised).

Rob C

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2016, 01:30:22 pm »

If you're really interested in knowing I can tell you precisely why.

1...Because he is not afraid to say what everyone actually believes.  He's not afraid of being called a racist or a misogynist or a fascist.  When the President of the United States says that the way to hit back at ISIS after the Paris attack is to fight global warming ( http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261193-obama-climate-conference-is-powerful-rebuke-to-terrorists )  you know all you need to know about why people are tired of politically correct lies.

It's politicians and corporations telling a population without enough jobs that uncontrolled immigration is good for them.
It's telling a country that's been recently exposed to Islamic terror attacks that the best way to solve the problem is to import tens of thousands of people from Syria.

2...
People are stupid but they're not that stupid.


1.  Think Brexit: The "leavers" spun a web of lies to which they admitted almost immediately after the result was announced; many of those fibs concerned finance and the holy cow of public health (which I also depend upon - across two countries); political correctness has already cast ugly shadows and fettered minds across the western world leading to public frustration when the reality of the obvious is clearly denied and rendered a no-go area for debate. The awake find it increasingly difficult to cope with the zombies.

2.  I disagree. You can never overestimate the stupidity of the general public. Brexit proved that too, where multi-nationals were somehow conflated with non-existing jobs for the unemployable, foreign workers living in Britain and making a go of it held responsible for the same unemployable Brits; the existing (since the 40s at least) Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain imagined to be part of some imminent new wave of Turks swimming across the English Channel.

That the UK was slowly (due to the present Conservative and previous coalition governments) digging its way out of national debt was, by the Opposition, held up as 'austerity' which is supposedly evil incarnate. Why it's thought cool for families to stay solvent, not spend what they don't have, and thus try to stay out of debt, but magically wrong for countries to do the same is just another manifestation of public nonsense designed to encourage the freeloaders to hold out for yet more.

We live in a world where expectations outrun paid-for reality.

I don't imagine the United States to have any greater a percentage of brilliant minds than does Britain. The only difference is that very few of our nutters have guns.

Rob C

Otto Phocus

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2016, 01:37:27 pm »

Aptly phrased.  I'm hoping the ghost of Ronald Reagan finds Trump in the White House and kicks his butt until he agrees to actually read the Constitution.  Then maybe he'll know what he is supposed to be doing.

Would that not require someone to teach Reagan about the Constitution first? ;D
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2016, 01:43:56 pm »

... those incoherent tough-sounding silly sound bites of his?...

I am saying this without any intention to offend anyone, but aren't you (rhetorical you) committing the same "crime" of judging him by the same silly soundbites that come from his opponents, whose only argument seems to be immediately labeling of those who have a different opinion as "racist, sexist, xenophobe, bigot, etc."

Quote
... It is not a good thing for the planet for the US to go nuts.

Or actually come to its true sense?

Justinr

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2016, 02:08:35 pm »

Well eye witnesses are pretty good. Google turns up a heap.
As to the conspiracy theorists, the trick is to spot the lie, and then their case falls apart.
I'm not particularly pro-American, but from day one some people have used this terrible event to push their own agenda, and it appals me.
David

Google turns up all sorts of eyewitnesses to all sorts of things, doesn't mean to say any of them are true though. The trick with the Pentagon is to find a pilot or aeronautical engineer who will stake their reputation on insisting planes can fly at zero altitude at 500mph, especially when piloted by an amateur. Google will also turn up various explanations of the 'ground effect'.

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scyth

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Re:What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2016, 02:45:27 pm »

The same national psychosis that elected a certain mustachio-ed man to power in Germany in the 1930s - and without the brown shirts?

he was not elected, he was appointed



http://history1900s.about.com/od/1930s/a/Hitler-Appointed-Chancellor.htm

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Alan Klein

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2016, 02:49:19 pm »


Assuming you are not joking, I am really sorry for your loss. I'd expect you more than anybody else to want to understand what happened that day.

But I fail to see how the tragic disappearance of the people who were on the plane supposed to have crashed on the Pengaton tell us that the plane actually crashed there.

Cheers,
Bernard


Yes, it's true.  Who could make a joke of it?  My niece Lisa Raines and dozens of other people on Flight 77 died when the jet was crashed into the Pentagon by members of Al  Qaeda under the direction of Bin Laden and Sheik Mohammad ( currently being held in Guantanamo).  Hopefully, Obama won't let the Sheik go after our presidential election and he will be eventually executed for murdering 3000 people.  To distract our attention with silly conspiracy theories of 911 that my niece and all the others on 4 planes just disappeared dishonors the people killed and their families and makes a mockery of their death.  You really ought to grow up.

scyth

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2016, 02:52:40 pm »

Obama won't let

couple+ of liars (WMD) responsible for hundreds of thousands deaths are walking with impunity... UBL & Co are innocent kids by comparison.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2016, 03:05:58 pm »

Bart, I am sometimes surprised by the condescending  and patronizing tone coming from some non-Americans. Perhaps I shouldn't be (surprised).

Slobodan, it's not meant (not by me anyway) as condescending or patronizing (I have little control over how it is perceived), it's just how certain people from outside the USA look at their friends when it comes to specific topics that defy logic. I've said it before, the Germans have a saying : "Was sich liebt, das neckt sich". IOW, 'we' wouldn't criticize if we didn't care. There are also those who hate the USA, but that's another subject, it doesn't include me.

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. The link is not only of an educational analysis of the USA electorate system (by an American) for Americans, everybody can learn something from it.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 03:16:30 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2016, 03:20:47 pm »

... it's just how certain people from outside the USA look at their friends when it comes to specific topics that defy logic...

The "logic" is shaped by one's experiences available to them, i.e., the availability bias. One needs to be in America longer than a tourist or business visit to understand it, in order not to base one's opinions on sound bites from the media.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2016, 03:22:02 pm »

... P.S. The link is not only of an educational analysis of the USA electorate system (by an American) for Americans, everybody can learn something from it.

That is a pure, unadulterated leftist BS.

shotupdave

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2016, 03:29:01 pm »

The man makes me groan, the woman makes me puke. Groaning is better than puking.
If there are more people like me Trump will win.

I just want to ask you, so you thnk attacking the person instead of an issue is the proper way to talk. Also being completely absorbed with yourself is a quality you think is admirable?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2016, 03:33:18 pm »

I just want to ask you, so you think attacking the person instead of an issue is the proper way to talk. Also being completely absorbed with yourself is a quality you think is admirable?

How elegantly you managed to contradict yourself in just two sentences!

shotupdave

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Re: What would it take for Trump to win?
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2016, 03:41:06 pm »

I am saying this without any intention to offend anyone, but aren't you (rhetorical you) committing the same "crime" of judging him by the same silly soundbites that come from his opponents, whose only argument seems to be immediately labeling of those who have a different opinion as "racist, sexist, xenophobe, bigot, etc."

Or actually come to its true sense?

when you can hear his entire speech and listen to the interviews he gives, its not sound bites. this apologetics that people use for his blantant racist and personal attacks is amazing. The man is just short of being a sociopath but does qualify as a malignant narcissist. his econonic views are childish, the way he can control other countries speak of strong man tactics. If antone has just the smalist of critism about him he rants.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:30:10 pm by shotupdave »
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