X1D hands on

[Rob C]

synn, Keith:

We reap what we sow.

;-)

Rob

[jvpictures]

well, I had my own some 30 years ago, b/w only, but still was fun though these days...

[Don Libby]

Looking at the lens specs I see both the 45 and 90 have a 67mm filter.  Is there any information/rumors on what size filter the 30 will take?

[Joe Towner]

Looking at the lens specs I see both the 45 and 90 have a 67mm filter.  Is there any information/rumors on what size filter the 30 will take?

As long as it's not a 95mm I'll be happy - I'd really like to use 4x4 filters, and while I have a CPL & rings to fit it, a little more breathing room would be appreciated.  Lee Wide Angle 77mm or 82mm would be ideal.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It is a bit mixed. A lot of people want a Sony A7rII type device. Why, because it can do a lot of tricks most cameras can't do. Like offering tilt and shift and being able to use Canon lenses.

It may happen that you don't need an MFD device that can use a Canon 11-24/4 L zoom with tilt and shift, but many shooters actually use things like that. So they hoped they would be able to use the X1D instead of the Sony.

Now, I am pretty sure that Hasselblad has made it's market research and arrived at the conclusion that there is a great market for a small and portable MFD camera system.

It is a bold step and I wish them good luck.

Is there a risk with that bold decision? Maybe that the step up from 42 to 50 MP may not be significant enough. Sony A7rII is clearly the main competitor to the X1D and Sony starts to have an impressive lens program, especially if purpose made third part lenses like Batis, Loxia and Voigthlander are taken into account.

The other main competitor is Leica… But, Leica's product portfolio is a mess. You have Leica S, Leica SL, Leica M, Leica Q. None of them comes close to the 50 MP of the Hasselblad.

Best regards
Erik

+1

In most of the negative posts, in terms of "missing" features, people seem to be complaining that Hasselblad essentially didn't announce an A7RII with a larger sensor.  For those that actually need all those features, such as IBIS or extensive use of 3rd party lenses, the A7RII is obviously a better tool as it fits those needs better and checks more of the boxes, so why complain the X1D doesn't fit your needs?  If people are looking for an A7RII with the Sony 50mp MF sensor instead of the current 24x36mm 42mp BSI, Sony is the most likely candidate to announce such a camera and I'm not sure why it was expected of Hasselblad.   

In particular, I don't understand the negativity surrounding the lack of FPS and 3rd party lens compatibility.  Some MF manufacturers, like Hasselblad and Phase, have always been "closed" to some degree (Phase with Capture One and MF image processing, Hasselblad with backs, you can't use Leica S lenses on another platform, you can't use a P1 35mm blue ring LS with an H6D-100c, etc)...why would people expect that to change now?  Hasselblad just announced a new lens lineup that seems to deliver excellent H-lens like quality at a fraction of the cost of H-lenses.  That's amazing.  Compatibilty with 3rd party lenses would decrease sales of XCD lenses, so IMHO they'd have little motivation to allow extensive 3rd party lens use (like people do on the A7/A7x series).   It's wonderful that mirrorless allows for adapting lenses and that people can use a Canon 17mm TS-E on systems other than Canon (I'd love to get one for my A7R), but it's unfortunate that people now seem to expect this from new mirrorless systems.  I haven't done due diligence, but there may even be some intellectual property owned by Sony (or other manufacturers) that would prevent Hasselblad from implementing it without licensing, which would drive up the cost and complexity of the camera and could be another explanation for "missing" features. 

People also seem to be using "missing features" as their own justification either not to purchase, or to tell themselves "it's ok that I can't afford it because it lacks features".  Take the comment in the thread about a "missing" sync port for example.  The X1D has a Nikon compatible hot shoe, and there are Nikon hot shoe to PC-sync port adaptors available that can be purchased for less than $30 USD.  I can't imagine why a solution like this wouldn't work if a sync port is needed, but it's more fun to comment about lack of features and write off cameras due to "deal-breakers" in forums I suppose rather than try to find a solution (no camera is 100% perfect) to get a camera/camera system to fit your needs. 

I appreciate all the hands-on reports that people are contributing and look forward to reading more.  As an existing H-system user, I think it's amazing that Hasselblad put out what essentially is an H6D-50c (sans mirror, modularity, upgrade path, and a couple other things) for 1/3 of the cost (34.6% to be exact) of an H6D-50c.  I am looking to upgrade my H4D-40, which I could trade in for an H6D-50c for ~$16k USD, or I could buy an X1D, the 45mm, the 90mm, and H-adaptor for ~$14k - I could do almost everything I could with an H6D-50c, have $2k leftover, AND get to keep to my H4D-40.  The reduced size/weight of the X system compared to the H system is a big deal as well as basically all of my photography involves travel.  It looks like Hasselblad kept the interface of the X1D simple as well, big gripes I have in terms of user experience with my A7R and X-T1.  I need to demo one myself first, but I'm hoping to order one start of 2017...

[eronald]

There is much to agree with in your post. People who would buy MF are now indeed using the A7IIR as a baseline for their "feature expectations", rightly or wrongly. This explains the negativity perceived here for the launch of a well defined and well-priced Hasselblad.

Edmund

+1

In most of the negative posts, in terms of "missing" features, people seem to be complaining that Hasselblad essentially didn't announce an A7RII with a larger sensor.  For those that actually need all those features, such as IBIS or extensive use of 3rd party lenses, the A7RII is obviously a better tool as it fits those needs better and checks more of the boxes, so why complain the X1D doesn't fit your needs?  If people are looking for an A7RII with the Sony 50mp MF sensor instead of the current 24x36mm 42mp BSI, Sony is the most likely candidate to announce such a camera and I'm not sure why it was expected of Hasselblad.   

In particular, I don't understand the negativity surrounding the lack of FPS and 3rd party lens compatibility.  Some MF manufacturers, like Hasselblad and Phase, have always been "closed" to some degree (Phase with Capture One and MF image processing, Hasselblad with backs, you can't use Leica S lenses on another platform, you can't use a P1 35mm blue ring LS with an H6D-100c, etc)...why would people expect that to change now?  Hasselblad just announced a new lens lineup that seems to deliver excellent H-lens like quality at a fraction of the cost of H-lenses.  That's amazing.  Compatibilty with 3rd party lenses would decrease sales of XCD lenses, so IMHO they'd have little motivation to allow extensive 3rd party lens use (like people do on the A7/A7x series).   It's wonderful that mirrorless allows for adapting lenses and that people can use a Canon 17mm TS-E on systems other than Canon (I'd love to get one for my A7R), but it's unfortunate that people now seem to expect this from new mirrorless systems.  I haven't done due diligence, but there may even be some intellectual property owned by Sony (or other manufacturers) that would prevent Hasselblad from implementing it without licensing, which would drive up the cost and complexity of the camera and could be another explanation for "missing" features. 

People also seem to be using "missing features" as their own justification either not to purchase, or to tell themselves "it's ok that I can't afford it because it lacks features".  Take the comment in the thread about a "missing" sync port for example.  The X1D has a Nikon compatible hot shoe, and there are Nikon hot shoe to PC-sync port adaptors available that can be purchased for less than $30 USD.  I can't imagine why a solution like this wouldn't work if a sync port is needed, but it's more fun to comment about lack of features and write off cameras due to "deal-breakers" in forums I suppose rather than try to find a solution (no camera is 100% perfect) to get a camera/camera system to fit your needs. 

I appreciate all the hands-on reports that people are contributing and look forward to reading more.  As an existing H-system user, I think it's amazing that Hasselblad put out what essentially is an H6D-50c (sans mirror, modularity, upgrade path, and a couple other things) for 1/3 of the cost (34.6% to be exact) of an H6D-50c.  I am looking to upgrade my H4D-40, which I could trade in for an H6D-50c for ~$16k USD, or I could buy an X1D, the 45mm, the 90mm, and H-adaptor for ~$14k - I could do almost everything I could with an H6D-50c, have $2k leftover, AND get to keep to my H4D-40.  The reduced size/weight of the X system compared to the H system is a big deal as well as basically all of my photography involves travel.  It looks like Hasselblad kept the interface of the X1D simple as well, big gripes I have in terms of user experience with my A7R and X-T1.  I need to demo one myself first, but I'm hoping to order one start of 2017...

[BobShaw]

A lot of people want a Sony A7rII type device.
Sony A7rII is clearly the main competitor to the X1D

If you want a Sony then buy a Sony.
Hasselblad make professional cameras and that has always been it's core business.
Sony makes consumer electronics and that is its core business. It used to make the best TVs, used to make the best music players, used to make the best laptops. At the moment it is excited about cameras and probably makes the best sensors, but only if consumers want them and something more profitable does not come along.
If you use a Hasselblad, and understand why, then the X1D looks pretty exciting and you don't care less about a FPS.

[eronald]

Bob,

 Sony also make rather a lot of very professional video production equipment. They seem to be a firm which is separated into fiefdoms, and one of these fiefdoms is games, image sensors is a spinoff, another fiefdom used to be PCs etc. They even own a music subsidiary, Sony Music and a life insurance company, Sony Life which now accounts for 30% of their revenues. I think they're a was-young company that is now slowly evolving into a very japanese thing with some sort of strange category name, I think like zaibatsu or keiretsu or something - Bernard would probably be able to explain better. I'm not so sure they really have a "core business" anymore, although their main focus is probably still electronics and entertainment content. The company as a whole certainly do not care about cameras or sensors, but that fiefdom is now one of the fastest growing and most profitable - and with the many cameras needed for a self-driving car they have found a Bonanza.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Life

Edmund

If you want a Sony then buy a Sony.
Hasselblad make professional cameras and that has always been it's core business.
Sony makes consumer electronics and that is its core business. It used to make the best TVs, used to make the best music players, used to make the best laptops. At the moment it is excited about cameras and probably makes the best sensors, but only if consumers want them and something more profitable does not come along.
If you use a Hasselblad, and understand why, then the X1D looks pretty exciting and you don't care less about a FPS.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Professionals use gear that is suitable for the job.

At this time the X1D comes with two lenses and no ultrawide or telephoto. No shift or tilt right now. It will be able to use H-lenses with an adapter that has not been presented yet. The HTS 1.5 will probably be usable with H-adapter probably or may be. But the X1D will be still a bit limited.

Two hard core professionals whom I know of has switched to Sony A7r (A7rII), Chris Barret and Rainer Viertlböck. They did do that not because it is the greatest camera but because it can do the job and dot it better than the traditional MFD systems.

• http://www.tangential.de
• http://christopherbarrett.net

Why do I say that the A7rII is the main competitor of the X1D? Can you mention an other one?

• A technical camera may fill the bill, but they don't have electronic viewfinder and also lack AF.
• DSLRs tend to be largish.
• I don't think APS-C and micro 4/3 are comparable
• Leica S/SL/M etc may be comparable, but I am not sure. Leica S is a DSLR and the others lack the resolution.

The X1D is smart step forward from Hasselblad, essentially making a small mirrorless camera based on the smallest available MFD sensor from Sony. But the sensor size also takes it closer to the 24x36 competition.

Best regards
Erik

If you want a Sony then buy a Sony.
Hasselblad make professional cameras and that has always been it's core business.
Sony makes consumer electronics and that is its core business. It used to make the best TVs, used to make the best music players, used to make the best laptops. At the moment it is excited about cameras and probably makes the best sensors, but only if consumers want them and something more profitable does not come along.
If you use a Hasselblad, and understand why, then the X1D looks pretty exciting and you don't care less about a FPS.

[Chris Barrett]

I don't really think there's anything to argue here.  Of course Hasselblad makes really lovely cameras.  That's why I still own a 501cm with 5 lenses.  My disappointment with the X1D is only in that it won't replace my Sony.  It just can't do the same things for me.  I would love to swap the 'Blad onto my Arca and use that for work, but it can't do that.  The Sony is, as my mentor said of his Horseman, a "cold, impersonal Japanese camera."  I just don't love it.  For now, though... for architecture, it get's the job done better than anything else available on the market.

I do really want one of these 'Blads, but I'd also love a CVF50 for my 501 and a Leica SL.   None of which will ever make me any money.

God, I'm starting to sound like Cooter.

[Theodoros]

I don't really think there's anything to argue here.  Of course Hasselblad makes really lovely cameras.  That's why I still own a 501cm with 5 lenses.  My disappointment with the X1D is only in that it won't replace my Sony.  It just can't do the same things for me.  I would love to swap the 'Blad onto my Arca and use that for work, but it can't do that.  The Sony is, as my mentor said of his Horseman, a "cold, impersonal Japanese camera."  I just don't love it.  For now, though... for architecture, it get's the job done better than anything else available on the market.

I do really want one of these 'Blads, but I'd also love a CVF50 for my 501 and a Leica SL.   None of which will ever make me any money.

God, I'm starting to sound like Cooter.

Although I hate to say that I agree with you and will keep the Sony on my (heavily converted for the job) Sinar P2, I have to say that it is quite early (before we see the complete picture behind the camera) for one to come in early conclusions... If for instance, the X to H lens adapter is a "dummy" one (no electronics involved to translate one interface to the other - the two cameras having the same interface but only on different mounts), then one can use his V lenses on a tech camera with H mount by using the V to H lens adapter and have the V lenses leaf shutter active on his view camera... We have to wait and see what Hassy has planned after the whole picture is complete... No reason to jump in early conclusions yet...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hmm,

In old times my dream camera was a Horseman VH-R… and yeah I am shooting Sony A7rII and driving a Toyota RAV 4.

I can agree a bit on the Sony A7rII. It doesn't awake emotions but it does the job. Time to take it for a walk…

Best regards
Erik

I don't really think there's anything to argue here.  Of course Hasselblad makes really lovely cameras.  That's why I still own a 501cm with 5 lenses.  My disappointment with the X1D is only in that it won't replace my Sony.  It just can't do the same things for me.  I would love to swap the 'Blad onto my Arca and use that for work, but it can't do that.  The Sony is, as my mentor said of his Horseman, a "cold, impersonal Japanese camera."  I just don't love it.  For now, though... for architecture, it get's the job done better than anything else available on the market.

I do really want one of these 'Blads, but I'd also love a CVF50 for my 501 and a Leica SL.   None of which will ever make me any money.

God, I'm starting to sound like Cooter.

[Theodoros]

Hmm,

In old times my dream camera was a Horseman VH-R…

What's the relevance? If there is something on the  particular camera that you feel is worth noting, just make a note on it...

and yeah I am shooting Sony A7rII and driving a Toyota RAV 4.

I drive a focus 1.8 TDI... it doesn't take pictures... does the RAV?

I can agree a bit on the Sony A7rII. It doesn't awake emotions but it does the job. Time to take it for a walk…

It "doesn't awake emotions but it does the job"? ...well put, well put... DO take it for a "walk"... Indeed a very good argument support!

[Theodoros]

Yep, it has 4 cameras on board.

Geeeeeee... are they all Sony? 

[KevinA]

Erik, I don't own a Leica but what I noticed about them over the Sony is when you pick it up you can use it, the Sony I thought was such a hopless design as a photographic tool it didn't matter what sensor it had I wouldn't want one.
I had two guys on a trade stand trying to show me how you turn off the horizon  level thing in the viewfinder, they both failed saying it's possible to set it off as a default.
FFS I just want to take a picture not deliver a bomb down a chimney from a low flying fast jet, for that you don't need all the rubbish Sony seam to think you do in the viewfinder.
Picking up the Leica S was like a breath of fresh air, I think Lerica know the difference between a guy that wants to make pictures and someone that likes to press buttons thinking they are making some creative input. I could find a use for all the products Leica make I would hate to think my camera bag was full of Sony cameras no matter how wonderous the sensor.

[Theodoros]

Erik, I don't own a Leica but what I noticed about them over the Sony is when you pick it up you can use it, the Sony I thought was such a hopless design as a photographic tool it didn't matter what sensor it had I wouldn't want one.
I had two guys on a trade stand trying to show me how you turn off the horizon  level thing in the viewfinder, they both failed saying it's possible to set it off as a default.
FFS I just want to take a picture not deliver a bomb down a chimney from a low flying fast jet, for that you don't need all the rubbish Sony seam to think you do in the viewfinder.
Picking up the Leica S was like a breath of fresh air, I think Lerica know the difference between a guy that wants to make pictures and someone that likes to press buttons thinking they are making some creative input. I could find a use for all the products Leica make I would hate to think my camera bag was full of Sony cameras no matter how wonderous the sensor.

Kevin... The Sony α7 series of mirrorless cameras is a great tool for one to use on a view camera instead of a digital back and additionally gain a shutter for his lenses and great LV... Not to mention that additionally he can share his MF lenses out of his MF system and thus save a fortune sacrificing the minimum possible than if he would use an MFDB instead...  Lets not forget that for this particular task (the use on a view camera) skills are far more important than the image sensor used. It is the major reason on to why   it's been most successful among skillful pros and demanding photographers, I bought mine without adding any lens dedicated to the Sony α7, neither is in my future plans to add one... I know many more photographers that do the same...

[BobShaw]

The Sony α7 series of mirrorless cameras is a great tool for one to use on a view camera instead of a digital back

Curious as to what type of view camera and what type of lens and focal length you actually do this on?

My experience was that the view camera was designed for a piece of film 5" wide and at the graflex back plane. When I put a DSLR on the back with adaptor there was a huge increase in focal length to accommodate the flange distance plus the adapter. The sensor is also so small that the magnification requires much better lenses and a longer distance. Using a MF back kept the sensor at the same plane but you still lost width, though not as much.

To get around all of this you had to go to something like a Cambo Wide and lenses that cost more than I paid for my Hasselblad.

So, having tried all of film, digital back and non-modular 35mm camera on a view camera I am trying to understand how you actually use a 35mm non modular camera on a view camera and what you can photograph and at what distance.

[Theodoros]

Curious as to what type of view camera and what type of lens and focal length you actually do this on?
Having tried all of film, digital back and non-modular 35mm camera on a view camera I am trying to understand how you actually use a 35mm non modular camera on a view camera and what you can photograph and at what distance.

There are a number of cameras you can use the Sony on.... Arcas and Cambo ultima are among the best as well as Sinar P3 dslr... Of course there is the Actus, but I find its movements limiting for serious professional work. Personally, I chose to convert a Sinar P2 and removed its frames completely, then made myself new frames and bellows for it, where the lens frame is of 85mm diameter (so that it is compatible by Novoflex lensboards for the Balpro) and the camera mounting  frame is of 72mm internal diameter and of 82mm external diameter. Both those "disc frames" have "L" shape legs in sliding bases so that they can slide back and forth on the standards for one to adjust the entrance pupil of the lens used (despite the lens) and the center of the image area as to be positioned at exactly the center of the tilt arc's circle... I got rid of Sinar's parallel axis system (the new frames are centered on the standards) and of course retained the 12cm radius of the tilt arc. The rear frame (the 72mm internal, 82mm external diameter) allows for the grip of the Sony to be recessed by it.

As for lenses, I bought an inexpensive Contax N to Sony E-mount electronic adapter and used its circuit as to control the aperture of my Contax 645 lenses from  the Sony's own aperture control dial (there are two extension cords from the adapter that connect the camera mount to the adapter's PC board and then from the adapter to the Contax mount). To make the camera mount and the Contax 645 lens mount, I sacrificed two extension rings, one for the Sony and the other of the Contax as to use the respective mounts, I've also converted a 24mm T/S lens to Contax mount (it can now be mounted on my Contax 645 bodies too - there was enough space from the rear element as for the mount to be recessed by 17.5mm) and use that too on the converted Sinar P2...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have picked up a Leica S, too, but I what not impressed at all. It was a bit like my 2008 vintage Alpha 900, but with noisy focusing. But, I cannot judge a camera by picking it up. Need to use it as tool for shooting.

With the Sony there are a lot of viewfinder  options, including clean screen. Personally I use the horizon indicator all the time. If you are shooting in dark places an electronic viewfinder can be quite useful. You can cycle between a number of different viewfinder setups using the disp button.

I don't think that Leica S is a direct competitor to the X1D, it is not mirrorless, it is quite heavy and lenses are both heavy and expensive.

Hasselblad's lenses are compact design, giving up on maximum aperture. But there are only two of them right now, with a third coming in September.

If you want a mirrorless camera, there are Leica M9/M (240), Sony A7xx, Leica SL and Hasselblad X1D if we skip over APS-C and 4/3.

EVF -> Sony A7xx, Leica SL, X1D
AF   -> Sony A7xx, Leica SL, X1D
> 24 MP -> Sony A7r/A7rII, X1D
> 37 MP -> Sony A7RII, X1D

Why would you buy a mirrorless camera?

- Size (but lenses can be large)
- Silent shooting
- Accurate AF (they use contrast detection)
- Flexible AF (you can put focus point where you need it)
- You can put any lens on it, on this point the X1D lacks flexibility

Best regards
Erik

Erik, I don't own a Leica but what I noticed about them over the Sony is when you pick it up you can use it, the Sony I thought was such a hopless design as a photographic tool it didn't matter what sensor it had I wouldn't want one.
I had two guys on a trade stand trying to show me how you turn off the horizon  level thing in the viewfinder, they both failed saying it's possible to set it off as a default.
FFS I just want to take a picture not deliver a bomb down a chimney from a low flying fast jet, for that you don't need all the rubbish Sony seam to think you do in the viewfinder.
Picking up the Leica S was like a breath of fresh air, I think Lerica know the difference between a guy that wants to make pictures and someone that likes to press buttons thinking they are making some creative input. I could find a use for all the products Leica make I would hate to think my camera bag was full of Sony cameras no matter how wonderous the sensor.

[Bo Dez]

IMO, the Leica S is a very capable camera. The sensor/lens combo is very hard to beat.

But, at 37MP, it is just too weak to consider as a pro system when 50-100MP can be had elsewhere. I don't know where the S fits anymore - it's in limbo where it doesn't cut it in a professional context and is way to expensive to compete with a dSLR.

The X1D is a much better alternative, is not even that much bigger than an M and looks like it has a decent and more certain future ahead of it - something that I think is questionable with the Leica and the S. I even wonder if the M's days are numbered.