X1D hands on

[BobShaw]

I am pretty shure Hasselblad doesn't have too much interest in allowing the X1d to be used like a digital back, otherwise they would have stated it and they would cannibalise their back sales

Thank you. I was looking forward to a thread from people who actually use the camera.

The purpose of this camera is a portable mirrorless medium format camera. It is not made for going on a view camera. There are already most of the existing modular medium format cameras to do that without adding any flange distance. The H series is better than most  for it. The X1D is made to go into a backpack (and I want one for that reason). My backpack does not include a view camera and a laptop.

Why would any premium camera manufacturer make a facility to attach lesser quality lenses directly to the camera?
Marketing wise it only makes sense for lesser quality camera manufacturers to allow third party lenses to improve their lesser quality cameras.
It will never happen to a Hasselblad.
If you want a focal plane shutter then probably don't buy this camera. It won't have one.
If my aunty had balls she would be my uncle.

[Theodoros]

I am pretty shure Hasselblad doesn't have too much interest in allowing the X1d to be used like a digital back, otherwise they would have stated it and they would cannibalise their back sales

Could be... But it also might be that they intent to allow compatibility with Hasselblad lenses only... Lets not forget that since an adapter for H lenses has been announced, V-series lenses will also be compatible via the existing V to H adapter. This should mean that one can use the camera as image area on a view camera right away provided that it is combined with V (or H) lenses... It will only be an extention chord needed or an "active" bellows (which I'm sure view camera makers will provide instantly).

IMO it will all clear out when the adapter for H lenses is available, if it is a "dummy" adapter (which I believe it will be), it means that they have in mind to integrate the new product with the rest of the existing products, if it is an "active" one with new lens interface communication it will mean that they have different future plans...

[Christopher]

....
Why would any premium camera manufacturer make a facility to attach lesser quality lenses directly to the camera?
Marketing wise it only makes sense for lesser quality camera manufacturers to allow third party lenses to improve their lesser quality cameras.
...

Because they could actually get more customers... Why should I buy into a System where I can't use any of my lenses and need to buy a complete new range ?

And it is quite fascinating that you actually think Leica S / Phase One lenses are inferior...

[BJL]

A USB-C implementation would be horribly complex with too many parts and would be the most expensive cable releases on the market.

Why would there be many parts and much complexity?  I am (perhaps naively) envisioning just one physical part: a cable from Hasselblad with a USB-C plug to go into the camera's USB-C socket.  (Plus a firmware update enabling the camera to work with it.)

Are you thinking instead of what a third-party solution would involve?

Added. Here is an example of what I am imagining; an Olympus remote cable release that uses the micro-USB port.
http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/remote-cable-release-rm-uc1.html

[geesbert]

I just think one reason for the Sony A7 being so popular is that you can attach nearly every 35mm lens ever made. And 645 lenses. And LF lenses.

would have been great if there would be a MF option....

[vjbelle]

This is just the first of the upcoming mirror-less cameras.  If there is no ability to use it on a tech camera then another manufacturer will fill that gap. If Sony releases such a camera it will more than likely have that capability. 

Victor

[Theodoros]

I'm sure that in Hasselblad they did consider all these factors and decided in purpose to make the camera compatible with leaf shutter lenses only... To start with, the camera is not incompatible with view cameras, it is compatible but only if the lens's own shutter is operative by the same camera... This immediately makes it compatible with all H series lenses and with V lenses too through the available adapters.
Additionally, the camera gives them the opportunity to have a real Flexbody or Arcbody replacement if they make use of the 4.5 cm (or more for the V lenses) space that they have to "play" with...

OTOH, as people correctly mention, there will surely be another mirrorless with focal plane shutter coming as to play the part of the Sony in MF... There is also a good chance that this other mirrorless will be using the same sensor as Hasselblad does being considerably cheaper at the same time (just think of how much a mirrorless Pentax Z could cost)... It is then natural for Hasselblad not to get involved in the field of direct comparison, but to offer a solution that is quiet to use and provides solutions within the company's own products...

What if they have another version of the X1D that will add multishot ability to the camera? (like the same sensor 50ms & 200ms backs do) they have the interface and software ready for that ...don't they? Wouldn't that make the perfect base for one to build a tech camera system around the system and stick with Hasselblad lenses and accessories?

[Wayne Fox]

I am pretty shure Hasselblad doesn't have too much interest in allowing the X1d to be used like a digital back, otherwise they would have stated it and they would cannibalise their back sales

Because they think mirrorless is the future and they aren't afraid to disrupt their own model? Because many (maybe most)  who choose to shoot MFDB on a tech camera shoot a brand other than Hasselblad and they would like some more of that market?

I don't believe  putting the body on a tech camera willbe something they themselves support, with adaptors and the like.  It's more a matter as to whether the firmware will support it similarly to how current MFDB's do.

[Joe Towner]

Why would there be many parts and much complexity?  I am (perhaps naively) envisioning just one physical part: a cable from Hasselblad with a USB-C plug to go into the camera's USB-C socket.  (Plus a firmware update enabling the camera to work with it.)

Are you thinking instead of what a third-party solution would involve?

Added. Here is an example of what I am imagining; an Olympus remote cable release that uses the micro-USB port.
http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/remote-cable-release-rm-uc1.html

So that may work for a local release with their cable, but if I wanted to use a PocketWizard/Hahnel or a Kessler crane/other motorized base, were' still in a non-functional.  The difference with the Olympus remote is that we've already seen camera makers use the 5pin USB2 port as a analog out cable, so this is just a pin-out with that form factor.  Doing anything with USB-C requires a chip inside the cable release, not just a relay that'll close a circuit to trigger the shot.

-Joe

[Joe Towner]

I am pretty shure Hasselblad doesn't have too much interest in allowing the X1d to be used like a digital back, otherwise they would have stated it and they would cannibalise their back sales

Hasselblad makes 1 digital back - the CFV-50c, the others are 'camera systems'.  Most dedicated view/technical camera users are buying a Phase/Leaf back, though there are some outliers, mostly due to the screens in the IQ series, plus wireless tethering, and power (for someone trying to reuse a H back).  The CFV-50c needs to be refreshed with the new screen, and wifi added.  Selling both at the $9k price point would be fine, where folks can select which style of shooting and which camera form factor they want. 

Using the X1D as a 'back' for someone wanting to shoot with a shuttered lens should be functional in so much as it'll sync, but that's it.  It could even be a $1k USB-C adapter and then it's an option.  Yes, it's pandering to the 5% of buyers who even care, but for those who'll put it in a bag with a  -100c or a H5x+IQ280 and a set of lenses it's important.

I'm not worried about a focal plane shutter - Hasselblad hasn't done one in decades, why start now.

[geesbert]

I guess the problem is, that the Sony chip doesn't allow global shutter. I still would prefer anything from Hasselblad to a Sony for my Actus setup

[tjv]

It seems to me that the problem with implementing this stuff is that the Sony chip does not support global shutter, and that Hasselblad did not include a FPS.
The global shutter might come in a future, redesigned chip from Sony and I doubt an FPS will ever come. At the moment this is the best they could implement without increasing the thickness of the body (maybe significantly, considering the oversized chip,) and investing a lot of R&D money into designing a new shutter and associated dampening mechanisms.

It is possible that a competitor started designing their (rumored) DMF mirrorless AFTER Sony made a newer chip available, but somehow I doubt it right now. Photokina will tell us...

[eronald]

Actually "global shutter" is something useful for video, but simple "electronic shutter" is more than enough for view-camera type applications. One may assume that Sony themselves have been playing around with various prototype cameras, still and video, on the basis of their chips - I would naively assume that the 50 has been available to them in the lab for at least 3 years if nobody were to contradict me with proof to the contrary.

Seeing the attention Sony paid to letting third party lenses adapt to their A7 series, I  imagine it cannot have escaped their attention that users of Medium Format cameras based on their chips would appreciate being able to use third party lenses as well, and in fact the presence of electronic shutter would help with their own and customer's prototype testing

Of course, the present 50c chips are known to be capable of 4K = 8MP video exposures with any (shutterless) lens, and the next generation cameras in the lab are now 8K = 32MP.

http://www.4kshooters.net/2016/07/11/michael-bay-gets-the-first-red-8k-s35-helium-sensor-and-custom-camera-bayhem/

Edmund

It seems to me that the problem with implementing this stuff is that the Sony chip does not support global shutter, and that Hasselblad did not include a FPS.
The global shutter might come in a future, redesigned chip from Sony and I doubt an FPS will ever come. At the moment this is the best they could implement without increasing the thickness of the body (maybe significantly, considering the oversized chip,) and investing a lot of R&D money into designing a new shutter and associated dampening mechanisms.

It is possible that a competitor started designing their (rumored) DMF mirrorless AFTER Sony made a newer chip available, but somehow I doubt it right now. Photokina will tell us...

[Doug Peterson]

 There are several references in this thread to using the X1D on a view camera or tech camera by using it sync cable (as one does with current digital backs). Does anyone have a definitive reference or info source from Hasselblad stating that this will be possible, or that it will be implemented (at launch, or later)?

Please note this post is not a criticism or statement that it won't be possible. It is simply an inquiry since I have not seen anything from Hasselblad itself that states operation of the X1D will be supported with any body or lens other than the native and HC-via-adapter lenses. I'm not an expert on this system nor a Hassy dealer so I could have easily missed such info.

[Theodoros]

 There are several references in this thread to using the X1D on a view camera or tech camera by using it sync cable (as one does with current digital backs).

Actually, looking back to the thread there aren't "several references" for using a sync cable... only one suggested that this may be the case... The discussion is more about the incompatibility of the shutter with other lenses (of other makers) that have an (incompatible) leaf shutter to the X1D, or to the fact that one can use it right now with H or V lenses on his view camera...

[eronald]

Seeing the sub $10K price of the CFV 50c back, this issue is not exactly going to impact the sales of the X1D, would be my first thought.

Edmund

There are several references in this thread to using the X1D on a view camera or tech camera by using it sync cable (as one does with current digital backs). Does anyone have a definitive reference or info source from Hasselblad stating that this will be possible, or that it will be implemented (at launch, or later)?

Please note this post is not a criticism or statement that it won't be possible. It is simply an inquiry since I have not seen anything from Hasselblad itself that states operation of the X1D will be supported with any body or lens other than the native and HC-via-adapter lenses. I'm not an expert on this system nor a Hassy dealer so I could have easily missed such info.

[Theodoros]

Ming Thein posted a hands on review... https://blog.mingthein.com/2016/07/06/hasselblad-x1d-early-impressions-with-samples/#more-13288

[eronald]

Ming Thein posted a hands on review... https://blog.mingthein.com/2016/07/06/hasselblad-x1d-early-impressions-with-samples/#more-13288

Theo, thanks for posting that.
One of the rare cases where the hands-on review really reads like a hands-on review.
Could almost have been a Michael review - made me remember that there won't be a Michael review of this landscape camera

Edmund

[Joe Towner]

There are several references in this thread to using the X1D on a view camera or tech camera by using it sync cable (as one does with current digital backs). Does anyone have a definitive reference or info source from Hasselblad stating that this will be possible, or that it will be implemented (at launch, or later)?

Please note this post is not a criticism or statement that it won't be possible. It is simply an inquiry since I have not seen anything from Hasselblad itself that states operation of the X1D will be supported with any body or lens other than the native and HC-via-adapter lenses. I'm not an expert on this system nor a Hassy dealer so I could have easily missed such info.

The camera as it stands does not have a sync in or sync out port.  My issue is that without a cable release port, I'm unable to use the camera in situations where it should work.  Maybe it'll be a USB-C thing - then again, doing a lens board with a Schneider lens mounted to a Schneider Electronic Shutter pulling power from the body over USB-C would be pretty damn cool.

[NickT]

What if they have another version of the X1D that will add multishot ability to the camera? (like the same sensor 50ms & 200ms backs do) they have the interface and software ready for that ...don't they? Wouldn't that make the perfect base for one to build a tech camera system around the system and stick with Hasselblad lenses and accessories?

This will never happen.