B&W print mode for PRO-2000 - improved neutrality?

[keithcooper]

As part of my PRO-2000 testing I'm looking at two new heavy (OBA free) rag art papers (names still TBA I'm afraid) but wanted to see if the neutrality of the B&W print mode had been improved over my old iPF8300.

With the 8300 I used to dial in a slight colour correction for artificial light.

A print with no correction, photos white balanced on the grey card (a BasICColor one). One in my kitchen under Halogen ceiling lights and one in the conservatory under direct sun (colour temps are from ACR after adjustment - 5Ds pics)

The third is the outdoor shot with sat/vibrance turned up +80, showing a small amounts of colour in the print compared with the card.

The B&W mode is looking improved over my iPF8300 - looks to be both an improvement of the black inks and the way they are mixed and used in the B&W mode.

For those who must have numbers, I've included a set of measurements from a 51 step wedge ;-)

[Mark D Segal]

Good to see that Keith; the complete inkset for the Pro 1000/2000/4000 series has been totally reformulated, so such improvements should be expected.

[Rob Reiter]

Good to see that Keith; the complete inkset for the Pro 1000/2000/4000 series has been totally reformulated, so such improvements should be expected.

Glad to hear about this reformulation, Mark. Any idea how affects max density?

[Mark D Segal]

Glad to hear about this reformulation, Mark. Any idea how affects max density?

For the time being, see my reviews on this website of the Canon Pro-1000 and the Epson Legacy Papers (which also covers their use in the Canon printer) where I provide data on black points as measured in the profiles and from the output. The inkset and printhead are the same as in the Pro-2000.

[keithcooper]

Glad to hear about this reformulation, Mark. Any idea how affects max density?

See some of the graphs in my pro-1000 review for a few more B&W examples of data

[deanwork]

Interesting Keith. It wouldn't have been difficult to improve the neutrality of the IPF 8300-8400 series out of their driver. I found it unusable.

The problem was not with the inkset but rather with the Canon software for working with monochrome, which was crude to say the least. With True Black and White software, either using only the gray and black channels, or toning slightly with only the hues needed in very small amounts, the results with that inkset are extremely nice and quite flexible. For neutrality it is kind of a no-brainer in that the color of the Lucia grays is already neutralized and all you have to do is shut off all the other color channels. Unfortunately, the Canon driver by itself had no way of doing that.

John

See some of the graphs in my pro-1000 review for a few more B&W examples of data

[keithcooper]

Interesting Keith. It wouldn't have been difficult to improve the neutrality of the IPF 8300-8400 series out of their driver. I found it unusable.

The problem was not with the inkset but rather with the Canon software for working with monochrome, which was crude to say the least. With True Black and White software, either using only the gray and black channels, or toning slightly with only the hues needed in very small amounts, the results with that inkset are extremely nice and quite flexible. For neutrality it is kind of a no-brainer in that the color of the Lucia grays is already neutralized and all you have to do is shut off all the other color channels. Unfortunately, the Canon driver by itself had no way of doing that.

John

Actually by dialling in a correction in the driver with the B&W mode (refined with a grey card as above), I found it very usable and have been making use of it for several years ... YMMV it would seem ;-)

TBW is good, but suffered noticeable usability issues from my POV - I'm hoping they manage to have the updated version ready before the PRO-2000 has to go back

[deanwork]

Maybe I am missing something but I have never seen anyway to shut off the color channels via the Canon software.

The result, I believe as you have pointed out several times, is that there is always some degree of metameric failure ( hue differences under various light sources) when using the Canon driver. Unlike with the Hp Z driver software, when you send a grayscale file to the Canson driver it is still color managing it and adding color inks. Why that is I don't know. Are you saying you can shut that off in the Canon driver and print grayscale?

I have never been able to print out of just the gray and black channels without using TBW. I have no issues with it once it is set up. I have pre-made linearization curves and it seems the easiest clean monochrome I've ever used, once the curves are made and that's vastly easier than QTR or Studio Print. My I-1 Pro2 interfaces fine with it on the Mac Platform. But I don't know about updates to the latest Mac OS since I'm not using it.

john

Actually by dialling in a correction in the driver with the B&W mode (refined with a grey card as above), I found it very usable and have been making use of it for several years ... YMMV it would seem ;-)

TBW is good, but suffered noticeable usability issues from my POV - I'm hoping they manage to have the updated version ready before the PRO-2000 has to go back

[keithcooper]

Maybe I am missing something but I have never seen anyway to shut off the color channels via the Canon software.

The result, I believe as you have pointed out several times, is that there is always some degree of metameric failure ( hue differences under various light sources) when using the Canon driver. Unlike with the Hp Z driver software, when you send a grayscale file to the Canson driver it is still color managing it and adding color inks. Why that is I don't know. Are you saying you can shut that off in the Canon driver and print grayscale?

I have never been able to print out of just the gray and black channels without using TBW. I have no issues with it once it is set up. I have pre-made linearization curves and it seems the easiest clean monochrome I've ever used, once the curves are made and that's vastly easier than QTR or Studio Print. My I-1 Pro2 interfaces fine with it on the Mac Platform. But I don't know about updates to the latest Mac OS since I'm not using it.

john

It's true that balancing the B&W mode can cause issues under some lighting. However almost all my work gets seen under artificial light. If I add to that choices of paper for B&W, I'm happy with the results I got - but they could be better and the PRO-2000 does that.

Unfortunately 'Print' isn't a big contributor to the business bottom line, so the chance of the iPF8300 being replaced with a PRO-4000 any time soon is a small one :-(

That said, having the P7000, PRO-1000 and PRO-2000 here this year does mean that there are a lot of big copies of some of my most popular prints sitting in my map drawers ;-)

[Mark D Segal]

But I don't know about updates to the latest Mac OS since I'm not using it.

john

The latest Mac OS update (El Capitan) seems fine. But there are big printing colour management problems from the latest releases of both LR and PS. There is another thread or two on that one.

[deanwork]

Thanks Mark, I didn't get the link to that thread.

The latest Mac OS update (El Capitan) seems fine. But there are big printing colour management problems from the latest releases of both LR and PS. There is another thread or two on that one.

[Mark D Segal]

Thanks Mark, I didn't get the link to that thread.

Sorry John, I should have provided it. Here goes: LR / PS Bug. It is also mentioned in a couple of other threads but this is the main one.