Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: Switching from Capture One to Phocus for the X1D?  (Read 13034 times)

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Switching from Capture One to Phocus for the X1D?
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2016, 11:05:20 am »


If I were them I'd consider shutting out high res 135 cameras too, but I guess to many of their MFD customers also have a high res 135.

Wouldn't that be seen as an admissin that the gap isn't as large as they claim? ;)

Besides, C1 pro is an important revenue stream for P1 that would completely die out if they stopped supporting high end DSLRs.

It also increases the number of beta testers significantly. Anyway you look at it, the higher the number of software users the higher the quality of the software.

Cheers,
Bernard

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Switching from Capture One to Phocus for the X1D?
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2016, 11:10:37 am »

Wouldn't that be seen as an admissin that the gap isn't as large as they claim? ;)

Besides, C1 pro is an important revenue stream for P1 that would completely die out if they stopped supporting high end DSLRs.

It also increases the number of beta testers significantly. Anyway you look at it, the higher the number of software users the higher the quality of the software.

Good points. I would have to look at the numbers first to make such a decision of course :-). As a user I certainly don't like when companies lock out like this, and I sort of boycott C1 because they do, but I do see there may be some strong business reasons to shut out mainly Hasselblad which is a direct competitor in the same segment.
Logged

scyth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
Re: Switching from Capture One to Phocus for the X1D?
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2016, 02:31:48 pm »

Besides, C1 pro is an important revenue stream for P1 that would completely die out if they stopped supporting high end DSLRs.
a public company 'd be pressured to spin off C1 business, no ? anybody taking P1 public ?
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4210
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: Switching from Capture One to Phocus for the X1D?
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2016, 03:11:58 pm »

a public company 'd be pressured to spin off C1 business, no ? anybody taking P1 public ?

I don't think they would be.

Capture One and Phase One are extremely synergistic. Almost as if they were made for each other ;). They are two of the three main legs on which Phase One medium format solutions sit (the third being dealer service/support). It's all part of one cohesive plan to provide the best medium format experience possible.

Apple hardware is great. Apple software is great. But it's the combination and control of both that really stands out. You get the software for free with the hardware (i.e. all iOS updates with your iPhone) and you can use a lot of third party software on their hardware (e.g. apps via the app store) with some notable competitive exceptions. It's not a perfect analogy - they rarely are.

And no one fear lockouts of high end small-format cameras. Phase One's policy has been crystal clear and consistent since day one:
1) they support high-end small format cameras in C1 as paid software*
2) they provide C1 for free as part of their own medium-format solutions

(1) pays for (2) which means Phase One users get to use raw software made specifically for their hardware and developed by a team significantly larger than any other camera company has for their software.

*Based on popularity and applicability of the camera to their core market of high-end pros and enthusiasts, balanced against the difficulty of support (e.g. harder to support cameras that use a new/unusual sensor). More than 400 are currently supported.[/quote]
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 03:27:38 pm by Doug Peterson »
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Switching from Capture One to Phocus for the X1D?
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2016, 03:17:59 pm »

Hi,

I have a P45+ and a bunch of Sonys. One major issue with the P45+ is white balance. Sony has decent automatic white balance, P45+ has not.

I have mostly used the P45+ with Lightroom and self made profiles. My experience with LR goes back to Beta 3 in 2006. LR introduced a new processing pipeline in 2012, that does some content aware tone mapping. I think that C1 does something similar in version 9.

I am quite happy with LR6 and my own profiles and I don't feel it is worth the effort to try to duplicate that in C1. That said, I see significant advantage in demosaic on non OLP filtered files in C1. But, I can use other tools like AccuRaw, Raw Therapee or Iridient's RawDeveloper with the same DCP profiles I use in Lightroom.

So, my clear preference is Lightroom with self made DCP profiles. When Lightroom runs into aliasing problems I can revert to RawTherapee that has a decent choice of demosaic methods and do my sharpening in FocusMagic.

It could be said that I have a strong bias towards Lightroom. So I try to find solutions for it's weaknesses. The great weakness of LR is demosaic with non OLP filtered images, in my experience.

Regarding C1, I have tested and bought licenses for both v7 and V8. It doesn't ring the bell for me. I skipped v9 as I don't want to pay for stuff I don't want to use.

I can use the DB version with my P45+, or a special license with my Sony A7rII. But, as I am quite happy with LR 6 and I can use my own profiles with that software I don't feel a need to work with C1.

That is not saying that C1 is not a great raw converter. But I am far more interested in getting LR6 working well for me than trying to get C1 working like LR6.

Best regards
Erik


Yes they do them well, I agree. I could be largely automated though for the common cameras, while the hand-tune in detail for their medium format cameras. Automated doesn't necessarily mean that it would be bad. The reason Adobe's profiles isn't that good to many of us is not that they're automated but that they've made some design choices in terms of look that doesn't yield the best results. For example they have their special tone curve a HSL-hue-constant RGB curve that gives highs a special look. You can however make a perceptual model of how a curve should be applied and get a different (and to me better) result which still makes it quick and easy to make a profile but with a better result.

Regardless how they do it the situation is that many do think that C1 gives superior color compared to LR (as that's basically what people compare to, not the manufacturer's own quirky converters which usually have very good color too), and I think it's a real advantage for Phase One, so I fully understand why they shut out the competing MFD products, C1 is a pretty strong selling point for spending the huge premium that a Phase One system is. If I were them I'd consider shutting out high res 135 cameras too, but I guess to many of their MFD customers also have a high res 135.

To say something about Phocus is that they also have very well-designed color profiles and their own multi-illuminant proprietary format (plus ICC for custom) for their Hassy cameras, the third-party cameras doesn't have any special profiles though AFAIK, just standard stuff coming with the OSX APIs. Personally I prefer Hasselblad's color over Phase One's, but to get that color you need to run Phocus... as their profile format is multi-illuminant and entirely different from DNG profiles it's probably not easily ported to LR, but if they tried their best I think the result would still be really good. AFAIK the colors of Hassy cameras in LR is far from being as good, but I haven't personally made a comparison (despite that I can I have a H4D-50, just haven't been curious enough about it...). I use a custom DNG profile myself for my Hasselblad, so I don't use Phocus, not so much because I don't like it but because I've always used RawTherapee both for my Leaf back and now my Hasselblad.

Phocus is fine if you have a "tradititional" shooting style where you don't need to apply that much post-processing, but is a bit frustrating otherwise.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 08:38:35 am by ErikKaffehr »
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

yashima

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 154
Re: Switching from Capture One to Phocus for the X1D?
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2016, 03:53:58 pm »

@Doug: Are you under any NDA regarding potential new products from Phase One ;-)?

P.S: I'm sure you not under NDA about being under NDA, arent you?
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up