New to printing: Seeking info and resources on printing

[fattkid]

Hey folks,

New guy here. Been shooting for the last 2 years or so, and I just got my first printer - a Canon IPF8400.

A little info - I do fine art landscapes pretty much, and I have intentions of selling my work at Art fairs and galleries. I have a BenQ 2700 monitor, calibrated by a professional, 10 bit workflow, processing in LR and PS.

I have been doing my homework as best as I can, but I have a lot to learn etc. Can anyone point me to any sort of instructional videos, books, online resources, forums etc. to help one ramp up on printing, printing with IPF printers in particular, types and uses of paper, matting images, printing on canvas, selling at fairs or galleries, etc.

I have a few books by Jeff Schewe and Alain Briot etc. Been watching the vids on this site. Surfing youtube.

So if anyone has any suggestions on learning resources, it would be much appreciated.

-Tevor

[Jeff-Grant]

Colour or B&W, and I assume that you mean 16 bit, not 10.

[Paul2660]

If you don't already have a copy,  The Digital Print by Jeff Schewe.

Has all you need.

Paul C

[fattkid]

Hey Jeff - Color is what I am focusing on right now. As for the "10 bit" thing - It's in regards to 10 instead of the normal 8 bit output from a video card to a monitor - so one can view a slightly higher fidelity image on a higher fidelity monitor - not sure exactly the technicalities of it - that's my unde4rstanding of it.

From the BenQ website -

10-bit Display for Precision Color-Reproduction

Enjoy the smoothest shading and color transitions in natural gradations on a 10-bit display. A 10-bit display can produce more than one billion colors to guarantee the silkiest, smoothest gradations.

Otherwise, the monitor is 14 bit. - "The 14-bit 3D Look Up Table (LUT) improves RGB color blending accuracy"

That's my understanding of all of it anyway.

Paul - I read that book like 8 months ago when I first started thinking about getting into printing. Time to read it again. Thank you sir.

-Trevor

[Jeff-Grant]

I would be inclined to get a couple of sample packs of Canson, Hahnemuhle and Ilford so that you can see what the surface of the papers are like. You will get no shortage of opinions on papers. It comes down to what appeals to you. I rarely use gloss papers these days but that's just me. Different papers have different characteristics, Dmax etc. Make sure that your paper has profiles for your printer. You can also learn a lot via soft proofing with various profiles before even putting paper in your printer.

I also know nothing about Benq monitors, but I hope that you can store different configurations to use with them. I have a standard D50, 85CD one for soft proofing, and a D65 for normal viewing.

[BobShaw]

The Digital Fine Art print Book
http://www.imagescience.com.au/pages/The-Digital-Fine-Print-Book.html

If you feel like spending a week on the Great Barrier Reef then go on Les Walkling's Orpheus Island workshop.

10 bit refers to monitors.
16 bit to colour depth.

[keithcooper]

I've reviewed all the iPF printers over the last few years and have a lot of general usage info in the reviews that might be of some help?

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/canon_ipf6450-pt1.html

As an aside...

I've also reviewed the 2700 monitor and noted with some alarm, your comment that you'd had it "calibrated by a professional" ...
Basically get some kit and do it yourself - the free BenQ software is easy to use and supports many calibrator devices.

It's a personal bugbear of mine but I'd feel bad (dishonest almost) taking money off someone to calibrate a monitor. I regularly get asked and tell people to spend a bit (I don't sell kit at all) and do it themselves since it's hardly a difficult task, and if you do it as often as you should, you'll save money before long. Indeed I've suggested people give anyone trying to sell them a 'monitor calibration service' a wide berth...

[Brad P]

+1 Jeff Schewe's book.

The From Capture to Print video series on this site is an excellent overview touching broadly on important topics you'll need to know.

Equipment is important.  An NEC or Eizo monitor, or at least one of the fancy Dell ones.  Color profiling your monitor (you should learn to do it yourself it's not that hard), soft proofing and ICC print profiles are important.

In the end, there's sadly no substitute for trial and error.  I thought I could research my way around that at first and that certainly helped, but there's way too many idiosyncrasies about all the software and equipment you use in your workflow -- so many details that no one could hope to efficiently cover in any video, book (or even manufacturers manuals).  Buy A4 or Letter sized versions of the papers you want to use to test on and later A2/17x22 sheets when you gain more confidence.  Print, research why it turned out that way.  Print again, research why.  Print, research until you gain confidence what you see on screen is predictable and the closest you can get to what comes out of the machine.

[FrankStark]

I am in the same situation, with a twist. I prefer Capture One to LR, and while I have taken an introductory course in Photoshop, I am trying to avoid an Adobe work flow for printing.

This goes against the dominant sources of advice like Jeff Schewe's book and many on this forum who tend to use Adobe products. Still, I too would be grateful for resources on printing  - using Capture One.

F.

[BobShaw]

Use a printing programme for printing. You will never look back.
There are many good ones. I use Mirage Print.

[Jeff-Grant]

I use C1 and avoid LR. For colour printing, I use Mirage and for B&W, QTR.

[keithcooper]

Whilst I can appreciate the desire to not use Adobe solutions, I'd just note that in terms of workflow, I find that C1 (and DxO) don't produce files in what I'd regard as a print ready state for large prints. I don't regard Lightroom as a solution in this respect either. They may be fine for small prints, but you don't buy a 44" printer for 8x10's

Affinity Photo is a solution I'd consider if I wanted to remove an Adobe stage in my printing - many of the techniques in the 'standard books' are applicable to it.

For print software, the OP said they had a Canon large format printer, so QTR is not a printing option. For B&W you might look at True B&W (which has a number of updates on the way I believe).

In terms of printing one's work, I'd say buying an 8400 as a first printer is, shall we say, a 'brave' decision...  (just make sure it gets used every week)

[Jim Kasson]

Hey folks,

New guy here. Been shooting for the last 2 years or so, and I just got my first printer - a Canon IPF8400.

A little info - I do fine art landscapes pretty much, and I have intentions of selling my work at Art fairs and galleries. I have a BenQ 2700 monitor, calibrated by a professional, 10 bit workflow, processing in LR and PS.

I have been doing my homework as best as I can, but I have a lot to learn etc. Can anyone point me to any sort of instructional videos, books, online resources, forums etc. to help one ramp up on printing, printing with IPF printers in particular, types and uses of paper, matting images, printing on canvas, selling at fairs or galleries, etc.

I have a few books by Jeff Schewe and Alain Briot etc. Been watching the vids on this site. Surfing youtube.

So if anyone has any suggestions on learning resources, it would be much appreciated.

I don't know if you can spare the time or the money (though some might argue that it's pay me now or pay me later in ink, paper, and lost sales), but there's no substitute for hands-on training. John Paul Caponigro and Steve Johnson both have good printing workshops, but my top recommendation would be Charlie Cramer:

http://www.charlescramer.com/classes.html

Jim

[Benny Profane]

I wonder about workshops. That's a ton of money. And, really, how good can the editing stations be? To accommodate a decent sized class, one would need to provide a room with a lot of powerful computers and very good monitors. Then I read that one should bring a decent laptop to do one's work on, because, obviously, they're warning you that you won't get a seat at the Macpro. Uh, no. Laptops are ok for field work and storage, but not printing prep.
For that kind of money, one could buy whatever library of books about printing that is out there, plenty of paper and ink, and learn the craft how one would really learn it in the end - pumping out a lot of prints. And have a lot left over to save for new equipment.

[Jim Kasson]

I wonder about workshops. That's a ton of money. And, really, how good can the editing stations be? To accommodate a decent sized class, one would need to provide a room with a lot of powerful computers and very good monitors. Then I read that one should bring a decent laptop to do one's work on, because, obviously, they're warning you that you won't get a seat at the Macpro. Uh, no. Laptops are ok for field work and storage, but not printing prep.
For that kind of money, one could buy whatever library of books about printing that is out there, plenty of paper and ink, and learn the craft how one would really learn it in the end - pumping out a lot of prints. And have a lot left over to save for new equipment.

What is your time worth?

I've attended printing workshops taught by Charlie, by Mac Holbert (who doesn't do that anymore, I think, since he left Nash Editions), and by Stephen Johnson. I've gotten a lot out of each. And I've been making digital prints since the early 1990s, and large carriage inkjet prints since the month the Epson Stylus Pro 9000 was introduced in, what, 1998?

The first digital printer I calibrated was the Dupont 4Cast, in the early 90s. Two other engineers and I defined all the color transformations, made all the measurements, and wrote all the calibration software ourselves.

Even with all that experience, I learned from three workshops on printing.

Jim

[digitaldog]

A 10-bit display can produce more than one billion colors to guarantee the silkiest, smoothest gradations.

A bit OT but no it can't. It can produce billions of device values. There's a huge difference in encoding data to produce billions of numbers versus colors!


http://digitaldog.net/files/ColorNumbersColorGamut.pdf


This big number game is more marketing than anything else. Yes, high bit data for editing, to avoid rounding errors is useful! We human's can't even see 16.4 million colors. We humans can easily slice up the data, using numbers, to produce 16.7 million values (or more). A high bit display and/or display path is kind of useful to know that IF you see banding, it's in the image data not the preview data.

[digitaldog]

I've attended printing workshops taught by Charlie, by Mac Holbert (who doesn't do that anymore, I think, since he left Nash Editions), and by Stephen Johnson. I've gotten a lot out of each. And I've been making digital prints since the early 1990s, and large carriage inkjet prints since the month the Epson Stylus Pro 9000 was introduced in, what, 1998?

The first digital printer I calibrated was the Dupont 4Cast, in the early 90s. Two other engineers and I defined all the color transformations, made all the measurements, and wrote all the calibration software ourselves.

Even with all that experience, I learned from three workshops on printing.

You learned from the best in the buz! Mac is an amazing instructor and printer. FWIW, my first digital printer was a Kodak XL-7700 back in 1993 or so. Bought it used for $10K.

[digitaldog]

I wonder about workshops.

Which one's have you attended and who instructed them? That kind of makes a difference.... 

[Benny Profane]

Alright, sir, I'll drop about ten grand to sample a bunch of these workshops, and get back to you about all that, if life experience is what you want. That's a little like Scientology, though, if you think about it. You know, you're never good enough. Write another check.

Actually, I've been to the workshop of life, working around the development of very accurate what you see is what you get translations from monitor to proof to press for millions of magazines. And, I got paid a nice wage for the experience. Now, I'm living off the pension. Maybe I'll start a workshop.


I still don't get how good an education in printing can be if one is told to bring their laptop to edit and soft proof.

[digitaldog]

Alright, sir, I'll drop about ten grand to sample a bunch of these workshops, and get back to you about all that, if life experience is what you want.

It appears sir, you've taken none. Based on the dollar figures you speak of, or the lack of an answer to a simple question: Which one's have you attended and who instructed them? That you have formed this opinion with zero experience, unless you state otherwise, with such a strong anti opinion of workshops, speaks volumes that other's here should take note of.

Actually, I've been to the workshop of life, working around the development of very accurate what you see is what you get translations from monitor to proof to press for millions of magazines.

So you're telling us you have no experience making your own prints.

Maybe I'll start a workshop.

I'm certain you feel qualified to do so. Other's here?

"The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about". -Wayne Dye

I still don't get how good an education in printing can be if one is told to bring their laptop to edit and soft proof.

Leave it at that....