Brexit

[stamper]

I'm being flippant but the point is serious.  Unrestricted immigration is unsustainable.  Either it has to be controlled rationally or it will lead to very unfortunate consequences for all involved.  The resources of the first world countries are finite and at the moment close to exhaustion.  To ignore this in a democratic society will inevitably lead to changes in who runs the country.  Merkel is only the most obvious case.

And what is your grand plan for controlling immigration? Nobody else has one but if you have one then a Nobel prize is yours to be had.

[Justinr]

And what is your grand plan for controlling immigration? Nobody else has one but if you have one then a Nobel prize is yours to be had.

Reduce inequality globally.

[stamper]

Reduce inequality globally.

How do you manage that? The end of Capitalism? That is not going to happen and whilst it exists then inequality will remain and worsen.

[Justinr]

How do you manage that? The end of Capitalism? That is not going to happen and whilst it exists then inequality will remain and worsen.

I very carefully avoided saying total equality was possible, only suggested that we work towards a more equal global society. 

[jfirneno]

And what is your grand plan for controlling immigration? Nobody else has one but if you have one then a Nobel prize is yours to be had.

Now you're being silly.  Border security is not rocket science.  Until very recently it was the general rule not some kind of master plan.  It involves polite border guards with automatic weapons.  Just ask the soviets from the 1980s how many immigrants they let through.  Come to think of it the Chinese government does a pretty good job of monitoring people going in and coming out of their borders.  All it requires is enough brains to realize that good fences make good neighbors.

[stamper]

Now you're being silly.  Border security is not rocket science.  Until very recently it was the general rule not some kind of master plan.  It involves polite border guards with automatic weapons.  Just ask the soviets from the 1980s how many immigrants they let through.  Come to think of it the Chinese government does a pretty good job of monitoring people going in and coming out of their borders.  All it requires is enough brains to realize that good fences make good neighbors.

Violence?

[jfirneno]

Violence?

Why would peaceful migrants turned back at the borders become violent?  Oh wait.  The Visigoths and the Vandals.  That's right.  Better make that barbed wire and machine gun nests.

[Justinr]

The number of people claiming unemployment benefit in Britain unexpectedly fell in July despite the shock to the economy caused by the Brexit vote, official data showed on Wednesday.


http://www.straitstimes.com/business/uk-jobless-benefit-claimants-unexpectedly-fall-in-july-despite-brexit-shock

[Jim Pascoe]

Now you're being silly.  Border security is not rocket science.  Until very recently it was the general rule not some kind of master plan.  It involves polite border guards with automatic weapons.  Just ask the soviets from the 1980s how many immigrants they let through.  Come to think of it the Chinese government does a pretty good job of monitoring people going in and coming out of their borders.  All it requires is enough brains to realize that good fences make good neighbors.

Well we live on a big island - not really that easy to police a border without building a fence all along the coast with watchtowers.  Not a future I relish.....

Jim

[jfirneno]

Well we live on a big island - not really that easy to police a border without building a fence all along the coast with watchtowers.  Not a future I relish.....
Jim

Well, if I were going to pick the most easily defended border I think I'd pick an island.  The Brits proved that to Philipe Segundo, The Corsican and The Fuhrer.

As far as relishing, it's always easy to get less security.  In a crowded world just open the door and more will enter.  Nature abhors a vacuum.  Look at how a living cell must work to maintain it's balance in an environment that includes a higher concentration of salts than the lethal level.  It's always pumping them back out.  But every country has to decide on a policy.  It all depends on what people want.

[Justinr]

Well we live on a big island - not really that easy to police a border without building a fence all along the coast with watchtowers.  Not a future I relish.....

Jim

May has already pointed out that she has no intention of installing a hard border between the two Irelands. Been there, tried that and it doesn't work. However, I doubt that will stop those incredible brains of the EU commission trying to create another East-West Germany situation although who they expect to pay for it is another matter entirely.
 

[Zorki5]

The Telegraph:

Theresa May will trigger Brexit negotiations without Commons vote

Interestingly, it's only third "most read" article, topped by Brenson falling from his bicycle...

[jfirneno]

The Telegraph:

Theresa May will trigger Brexit negotiations without Commons vote

Interestingly, it's only third "most read" article, topped by Brenson falling from his bicycle...

Bicycles are very interesting.

Well I guess the reason why people aren't surprised is because  it's what the vote was for.  As a comparison suppose the Scotland referendum had succeeded and now the Prime Minister was debating whether it would be dependent on a vote agreement by the Commons.  I imagine the Scots would probably revolt.

People catch on eventually if the outcome of every coin toss is heads I win, tails you lose.  They're stupid, but not that stupid.

[Manoli]

Last day of court proceedings re 'Article 50 Challenge', tomorrow, Tuesday18th.
Apparently also being broadcast via live video feed starting at 10:30 (UK) -  judiciary.gov.uk

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/publications/santos-and-m-v-secretary-of-state-for-exiting-the-european-union-transcripts/

[stamper]

As I've only lived in the UK for 3 years I'm not qualified to judge, but I love the idea of the UK being separate from continental Europe.  God knows 1/4 of eastern Europe has already moved here anyway and no one is asked to leave.

I see the UK much like the U.S.  Almost ashamed that the country is strong then in turn lower the quality of life to a lesser degree because the immigrants bring a  standard that is not acceptable to most of the western world.

When I moved to LA the motorways were manicured and beautiful.  Then we became a "safe harbor" city and the motorways looked like Mexico. I don't blame the immigrants because that's all they know, but it still lowers the living standards as we continue and no one gets to vote on that.

So let the UK be the UK and pay their tax money into their own country, not EU politicians we don't have a vote on.

Anyway democratic outcome should be accepted.

BC

Rather ironic. On the one hand you state that .....I'm not qualified to judge...... then you claim........Almost ashamed that the country is strong then in turn lower the quality of life to a lesser degree because the immigrants bring a  standard that is not acceptable to most of the western world.

Does you presence in the UK lower or raise the quality of life that UK residents enjoy?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Does you presence in the UK lower or raise the quality of life that UK residents enjoy?

Given that he is coming from a country and social group with a generally higher standard of living, I'd venture to say "raise."

[bcooter]

I would like to think raise because we bring business from the U.S. to this market, not the other way round.

We also hire goods and services pay taxes and respect the rule of law.

I just think a democratic decision should be respected and accepted, because that is the will of the people.

I've probably been to immigration more than most U.S. citizens and it's heart breaking how the "legal" immigrants are treated, when on the flip side driving through and just staying is almost encouraged.

It doesn't make sense.

IMO

BC

[Manoli]

I just think a democratic decision should be accepted.

Coots,

I think a democratic decision will be accepted, when it's made in accordance with our *democracy*.
Britain is a Parliamentary democracy. Parliament decides.

This court case isn't about overturning a democratic decision, it's about who gets to decide what the *yes/no* choice means: an elected Parliament or an unelected PM and couple of her appointees looking to ride roughshod over the whole process.

M

[drmike]

My head is spinning, I didn't realise Cooter was in the UK at all still less for 3 years and neither did I realise manoli was British as well. It doesn't matter one way or the other of course I'm simply surprised. It'll probably turn out that RobC is actually in the Isle of Wight not the sunny med.

I equally surprised this thread has resurfaced

[scyth]

and legally fought for years to remain

and why 'd she fight unless she was an illegal alien in the first place ?