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Author Topic: More Sublime  (Read 8456 times)

RSL

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2016, 01:59:37 PM »

..Or you could just carry on regardless!

Look Russ, we are talking about different things, unless you are saying that the discussions of philosophers, artists, intellectuals over many years on the subject, despite galleries dedicating exhibitions to it, despite modern intellectuals studying the concept and writing papers on it, all along you had the secret to the entire thing. I can imagine you walking in to the midst of the discussions and just declaring proudly, arms aloft, lads, it just means nice, at which point Burke and his mates, the curators at the Tate and everyone else just sit back and go, wow he's right, lets go and grab a beer.

If that's what you are saying then sure, you've got it, end of conversation, many thanks.

I'm going to do us both a favour and remove the temptation to reply to you again by just ignoring you, I've only done that to 1 other person but honestly, you have absolutely nothing worth listening to and this acting like some strange geriatric bully, ridiculing and dismissing things that don't comply with your way of thinking is just boring.

Mat

Thanks, Mat. Now I'm sure you need professional help.

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2016, 02:01:54 PM »

Maybe this also has some meaning?

"The Sublime

Things of great height such as mountains
Craggy, rocky, rough features
The dark and obscure
The dangerous and wild
The sublime eludes the limits of representation
The sublime is that which cannot be described or represented fully 
Encountering the sublime involves a loss of self
Encountering the sublime involves a loss of reason.

The Beautiful

Produces feelings of pleasure in the beholder
Can be represented
Does not challenge reason
Generates an emotional response, even love
The response to the beautiful is physical and sensual.  Women’s bodies can be beautiful, bur not women’s minds
The beautiful can be known and can be described. It is safe.

The Picturesque

Is a hybrid aesthetic category
Is a way of seeing and describing nature
Is a way of viewing nature as though composed for a landscape painting
Key features are asymmetrical shapes, sinuous shapes, the rugged, the irregular; light and shades; contrast; variety
A picturesque landscape can be inspirational (compare the sublime) but is controllable (compare the beautiful)
Picturesque landscapes often include the ruined or part-ruined, and concealed or part-hidden
The picturesque appeals to the eye but also to the rational senses, and provokes a rational response
The picturesque can be contained by and described using language"

This taken from another publication.
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mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2016, 02:05:50 PM »

Or this ...

http://philosophy.about.com/od/Philosophical-Theories-Ideas/a/The-Beautiful-The-Sublime-And-The-Picturesque.htm

"the sublime on the other hand, is a transformative experience typically associated with some negative pleasure and elicited by the encounter of an object or situation whose quantity transcends the limits of our actual grasp. Imagine of contemplating the sea, or the sky, an immense quantity of garbage, or a mesmerizing infinite series of numbers"

There is a lot of information on the subject when you start to look, the concept is always described as being different to picturesque or pretty or beautiful or even nice.

Mat
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2016, 02:33:10 PM »

... The term picturesque seems a little absurd to me in the context of the image, picturesque was the last thing on my mind when shooting it, definitely when processing it and certainly when displaying it, it is the opposite of picturesque...

If so, why is my qualification as "barely picturesque" rude? You should have taken it as a compliment, it seems.

The reason I used the term "picturesque" is that the person you spoke to in the original thread used that term. Otherwise, beyond the genre labeling, it is a decent image.

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2016, 02:49:19 PM »

I've already explained what is rude Slobodan, there isn't an easier way to explain it than that.

I don't see what you wrote as a compliment but I am not looking for a compliment from you or anyone, I still would like to develop furthering my understanding of the subject. I wrote in my first post that I was told to continue to focus on the Sublime rather than the picturesque which as I read is not the same thing at all, would you agree? Having looked at the shots I had taken, the idea was to point my in the direction of a style that worked with what I was trying to do, rather than taking shots that could be classed as picturesque.

Anyway, I have received some excellent advice from people not involved in this thread, strangely they have been far more helpful! So I feel I have got enough information to start developing my ideas and looking in new directions.

Thanks to all who contributed.

Mat
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2016, 02:58:15 PM »

I've already explained what is rude Slobodan, there isn't an easier way to explain it than that...

Given that English is a second language for both of us, I'll consider your continuous defensive, hostile, and argumentative responses to benevolent contributions as something lost in translation.

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2016, 03:04:05 PM »

Haha! Well of course you are entitled to do that Slobodan, your grasp of humour is coming along nicely though, well done! It is much easier to do that than deal with the actual subject I guess.

Have a nice evening.

Mat

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Hulyss

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2016, 03:06:38 PM »

Leave them alone Mat, you waste your energy for some dudes who are "barely" picturesque.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2016, 03:57:34 PM »

What I still can't understand is why Mat's so hung up on the word "sublime," which, standing by itself is as meaningless as "nice." In fact some people think those two words essentially are synonymous and that the difference is a matter of degree. Mat may need professional help to get to the bottom of this quest.

Sublime is a real concept not to be dismissed though it can be quite subjective in its interpretation.

My understanding is to find a way to evoke a bigger than life aspect to imagery that has a down to earth central focus and story to contrast against and thus enhance the bigger than life feel.

After viewing Mat's gallery I can see why he got the "picturesque" comment. Every image in his gallery shows a technically perfect looking sameness image to image with none offering any contrast to lift it out of its sameness. Also there's too many images that support this sense of repetition.

Each image primarily depicts shapes, lines and shadows of baron landscapes taken at different times of the season. Where's the story? Why am I looking at it? What do I look for? Where's the central focus that tells the viewer they're not just looking at baron landscapes? Is there more to those landscapes than meets the eye? Thus those images don't communicate sublime qualities.

But I bet the ancient philosophers that discussed such concepts would have their minds blown by Mat's landscapes because everything is relative according to each person's sensitivities influenced by what they've become used to.

My gallery doesn't evoke sublime qualities either, but I'm not concerned with other's criticism of my work or whether or not they see them as sublime.

Most photographers that can capture that quality primarily have to be in the right place, at the right time. And a lot of that is based on whether they have the resources to make that happen.
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mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2016, 04:08:30 PM »

Hi Tim

What gallery are you looking at? There's nothing on my website from the last couple of years at least! But thanks for taking the time to analyse them, although I have stated before that my desire to understand the concept is not because I think it relates to my images as they are now, but rather it's something I want to know about in order to help me for where I am going. You are correct though, there is nothing on there that I would consider even approaching sublime.

Thanks also for your interpretation of the subject, it's interesting to read.

Mat

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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2016, 04:26:59 PM »

Hi Tim

What gallery are you looking at?

Mat

Clicked on "Fine Art" in your linked gallery and found this... http://www.matrichardson.com/p942597165
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2016, 04:31:49 PM »

Since it's difficult to find examples of what I would consider images that evoke a sublime quality, I decided to show what sublime is not.

I guess you know it when you see, but since I don't go looking for it, I know it when I don't see it is my only option in my interpretation and explanation of it.
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mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2016, 04:33:26 PM »

I see, well if I had wanted to show those images on here I would have, they are old and not relevant, it's not normally the done thing to post a link to someone else's shots if they don't post it themselves, would be great if you could remove the link. As I have stated, this is about gathering knowledge, my images are not there for critique from anyone which is why I haven't posted them.

Mat

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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2016, 04:43:04 PM »

Your welcome, Mat. Nice talking to ya'.
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mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2016, 04:46:07 PM »

Hmmm, Tim, you have crossed a line, I would not dream of posting your images, it is just not done. If you have a personal issue with me then best you write me a personal message about it rather than post my work without permission.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2016, 04:57:19 PM »

Mat, I have no personal problems with you. You've provided the link to your gallery in your signature for everyone to see and you asked me directly what gallery I sourced my opinion on. I didn't critique your work. I used your work as an example to explain the concept of sublime.

I'll let the administrator handle this.

And I don't do private messages. I believe in transparency.
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Chris Sanderson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2016, 04:59:16 PM »

The posting of a link to publicly-viewable images on an open Web site crosses no line.

This thread(s) is occupying too much of my time and will be locked if the silliness persists.
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Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2016, 05:02:59 PM »

You know what, no problem, my private message was to ask you to remove the link, it's just common decency to agree when you are requested to do so, if you don't want to then no problem, I have nothing to hide, I am not ashamed of my images, they are just not relevant to the topic, but what the hell, if it makes you feel good to do it then be my guest.

Mat
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RSL

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2016, 05:03:23 PM »

Hmmm, Tim, you have crossed a line, I would not dream of posting your images, it is just not done. If you have a personal issue with me then best you write me a personal message about it rather than post my work without permission.

Hmmmm. . . Isn't that a link to your galleries at the bottom of all your posts, Mat? Does that cross a line?
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