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Author Topic: More Sublime  (Read 9261 times)

RSL

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More Sublime
« on: June 15, 2016, 12:52:36 PM »

Mat, you haven't been on here long enough to understand that there's a group of people who'd seriously ask the question you were asking and really believe they could find an answer. They pop up regularly, so be on your guard.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 01:00:34 PM »

Since Mat locked his thread, I will post this here:

Sublime = spectacular

Mat's shack = picturesque (barely)

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2016, 01:04:47 PM »

Russ

I have been on here since July 2008, sometimes there are glimpses of excellent information in amongst the nonsense, I can post a thread in the hope that some of that would arrive, but obviously not, my mistake.

As I see it, I asked an entirely reasonable question which you took to answer over and again whilst not really answering what I was asking, you then picked up on an error in my grammar and dismiss the whole thing even though my original post and everything I have responded with has been aimed at actually trying to find out if there is such a thing and whether I can find out more about it. Your response could have been as simple as, I know the literal meaning of sublime but don't know of anything different as relates to art, for which I would have thanked you and waited to see if someone else had more relevant information, if not, I'd have had my answer.

It doesn't matter though, I have learnt my lesson!

Have a good evening.

Mat

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mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2016, 01:06:32 PM »

Since Mat locked his thread, I will post this here:

Sublime = spectacular

Mat's shack = picturesque (barely)

Haha! I am so depressed, as I was taking this shot I was thinking, please let Slobodan like it, please!

If you want to continue I have no problem with it, as I closed the original thread there is absolutely no need to respond with anything sensible so have at it!

Mat
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RSL

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2016, 01:06:54 PM »

Mat's shack = picturesque (barely)

In other words, "nice." He didn't pick up on that one, Slobodan.

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2016, 01:09:53 PM »

It's not that I didn't pick up on it, it's just that it doesn't matter. As I stated many times, it is not about my photography it is about the concept but like I say, have at it, rip it to shreds and have fun, it's all good!

Mat
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2016, 01:10:24 PM »

Why so defensive and sarcastic, Mat?

Nothing that I said was meant as an attack on you or the image. I used a descriptor you already heard from somebody else (picturesque), which means I think it is a nice image. Nowhere I said I didn't like it.

RSL

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2016, 01:11:47 PM »

It's not that I didn't pick up on it, it's just that it doesn't matter. As I stated many times, it is not about my photography it is about the concept but like I say, have at it, rip it to shreds and have fun, it's all good!

Mat

Uh huh.

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2016, 01:13:49 PM »

I'm not being defensive Slobodan, it's just a fact, you could think it was amazing or terrible and it wouldn't matter, I am quite comfortable with what I produce, it's for me. I was being sarcastic but that's my nature, I can't change that, it's one of my many many flaws, I embrace it!

Mat
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2016, 01:15:03 PM »

... trying to find out if there is such a thing and whether I can find out more about it...

Yes, Mat, there is such a thing and you can find more about it. There is a book:

Landscape and Western Art (Oxford History of Art)

where there is a whole 20-page chapter devoted to sublime and landscape art (between pages 129 and 149)

I hope you'll find this information helpful.

mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2016, 01:18:27 PM »

Now that is what I was looking for, many thanks Slobodan, I knew there would be some information out there somewhere.

Mat
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mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2016, 01:20:10 PM »

I have also very kindly been sent a link to this..

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sublime-Documents-Contemporary-Art/dp/0854881786/

Just in case anyone else is interested in learning more about the concept.

Thanks again.

Mat
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photoenthusiasm

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2016, 05:00:24 AM »

Yes, Mat, there is such a thing and you can find more about it. There is a book:

Landscape and Western Art (Oxford History of Art)

where there is a whole 20-page chapter devoted to sublime and landscape art (between pages 129 and 149)

I hope you'll find this information helpful.

thanks You Slobodan for giving this information. In the previous thread I responded early to the question about the meaning of sublime in the context of Mat's question. This language is not my native one and I thus am handicaped in expressing myself precisely. What I meant to say is more covered when You look in the dictionary at the word sublimation: which means raising it to a higher status. In other words: the spectator experiences emotianally more then the bare picture shows. The quest for how to achieve this in your own photography is a real challenge to me but also gives me extra "fun" in terms of reaching for new goals and focussing. In fact Mat's question has never been as actual as it is now due to the technical possibilities from digital photography: everyone can make a "wow"picture now and then. The actual question to me and many others: how to think, plan and act to let your picture speak to others with sublimation as a result (and thus not take a picture that results in an unintended but very welcome wow effect from others). I think this is one of the main focusses in (the more passionated) amateur photography nowadays then it was in the past. On the dark side: it is also a way to set a photographers' passion aside as he or she isn't acting according to the current expectations of achieving the primary goal to thrive for sublamation as being synonimous for excellence.
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elliot_n

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2016, 05:49:41 AM »

everyone can make a "wow" picture now and then.

"Good art should elicit a response of 'Huh? Wow!' as opposed to 'Wow! Huh?'" - Ed Ruscha
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photoenthusiasm

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2016, 05:52:17 AM »

"Good art should elicit a response of 'Huh? Wow!' as opposed to 'Wow! Huh?'" - Ed Ruscha

superb description of sublimation!
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"Good art should elicit a response of 'Huh? Wow!' as opposed to 'Wow! Huh?'" - Ed Ruscha
my pictures: photoenthusiasm on flickr.com

Otto Phocus

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2016, 06:19:52 AM »

Russ

I have been on here since July 2008, sometimes there are glimpses of excellent information in amongst the nonsense, I can post a thread in the hope that some of that would arrive, but obviously not, my mistake.


If you have been here since 2008, you should have realized that there is a set of people on this site who are lacking in human communications skills.  They pop up regularly.  It is best not to respond to them.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2016, 01:50:14 PM »

... the word sublimation: which means raising it to a higher status...

That is an interesting formulation. It reminds me of one of my two favorite quotes that define my photography (in the Info/About section on my site - the other quote is by Socrates), by Minor White:

“One should not only photograph things for what they are but for what else they are.”

Hulyss

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2016, 02:37:25 PM »

I'm not being defensive Slobodan, it's just a fact, you could think it was amazing or terrible and it wouldn't matter, I am quite comfortable with what I produce, it's for me. I was being sarcastic but that's my nature, I can't change that, it's one of my many many flaws, I embrace it!

Mat

I (and many other) am quite comfortable with what you produce Mat. So it isn't just for you; your work and skills are very valuable. Lula isn't what it used to be and there is some individuals who just do not get it, like Otto said, and grab attention in almost all threads.

Fortunately there is some Lula members who came to one of my workshop and we concluded that we should build a new place, more controlled and focused on Photography and Professionalism. You check the two cases. You'll be welcome.

When all is darkness never forget there is always some hope and light.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2016, 04:23:28 PM »

Well, in reference to landscapes to create a sense of sublime, you should really get to know where the black point of the scene falls within the dynamic range of your calibrated monitor. Crushing the shadows so it looks like traditional dramatically high contrast slide film will destroy anything close to looking sublime in a landscape. If looking at the scene before snapping the shutter doesn't evoke a sense of sublimation, move on to looking else where, just make a note of just how dense the blackest black looks compared to the rest of the scene. 0,0,0 RGB may not exist if not make up a small area in the scene.

Then control the gradation of those tones in post as they transition from zone to zone.

It's hard to remember how the overall scene conveys "higher quality and grandeur" between the time of capture to viewing it on the monitor. But I know what ruins it for me when looking at a lot of landscapes is black splotches peppered about the scene that represents the densest tones and they just stick out like sore thumb like the tree image below. The tree limbs in shadow look like they're burnt because there's no way of transitioning to lighter tones to make it agree with the overall bright sunlight.

This is one of the reasons Ansel Adams made most of his midday lit landscapes look so dark.
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mjrichardson

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Re: More Sublime
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2016, 05:08:46 PM »

Hulyss, if you create a place to talk about ideas and concepts then I would love to be a part of it.

I still think my intention to discuss and learn about the concept of sublime in art is being confused with peoples perception as it relates to the dictionary definition, as in someones personal idea of something being so nice that it transcends in to sublime, not what I was talking about or wanting to get to know about, although the notion of creating something that you consider to be sublime in that sense is obviously a worthy endeavour.

Thanks to some really nice people who have messaged me, sent links and pointed me in the direction of new things to look at, I am beginning to get the idea and how it could relate to modern scenes or the idea of capturing something that represents sublime in it's original artistic form.

I found some things that I like and will quote here for those interested. I like this from an artist which I think highlights why I believe we are talking about something different..

"...as the painter of a canvas to which many viewers have responded with mentions of ‘the sublime’. They do so, I should add, to describe the tradition to which they feel the painting relates, rather than to praise it."

I think this is the thing some are missing, it is not about praise, it is the sublime as a description of the idea or notion of the piece of art or photograph. I found this really interesting body of work by Edward Burtynsky, exhibited under the title, The Industrial Sublime, a really incredible collection of images that would be difficult to class as sublime as it relates to the dictionary definition but the work really appears to relate to the previous quote I posted from Burke, the work deals with environmental devastation.

The project is here http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/site_contents/Photographs/Oil.html
I also found this text discussing it an interesting read.. http://www.academia.edu/1025404/Are_the_Oil_Sands_Sublime_Edward_Burtynsky_and_the_Vicissitudes_of_the_Sublime

"The sublime experience verges on threatening the subject with complete annihilation, yet intrinsic to the experience itself is a sense of security and safety. It reveals to us our very minuteness and insignificance  yet simultaneously seems to expand the boundaries of the ego. "

This to me is interesting, with my limited reading, it seems like the idea of sublime is a mixture of attraction and revolution, this is a good description from the above text..

"... On print after print, we are presented with panoramic photos of industrially wrecked and ruined landscapes possessed by a surreal beauty and frightening gran-deur. Frequently, the viewer is entranced by spectacular landscapes, which upon first glance could almost seem to be of natural wonders such as the Grand Canyon, only to realize moments later that what one is witnessing is a toxic dump..."

I am sure that there is a lot to read on the subject, it interests me and may not anyone else, that's cool, we all like different things but thought it worth posting something. I think that this notion of sublime is deeper than what a lot of people posting above think it is, I don't think personally that it relates to the black point on your monitor for example, I don't think it necessarily relates to technique at all, not that it matters what I think, it could just as easily be entirely about transitions from zone to zone, ultimately it's just photography and the desire to learn new things and see where it goes.

Mat





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