Coating Matte and Baryta Textured Papers

[Brad P]

I'm about to HVLP spray very expensive printed matte and baryta art papers with Timeless, a Breathing Color manufactured, otherwise archival and not-so-harmful coating for exposed prints. I'm also about to dilute the spray 8x by adding distilled water, and also adding quite a few drops of Kodak Photo-Flo so it better impregnates the inks and paper.  My hope is that this will result in a finish that is protective yet maintains as much of the surface texture as possible. 

Anyone want to stop me or suggest better experiments?

[mcbroomf]

The alternative approach/experiment I'd take would be to do this on test prints before committing to the "very expensive" prints.

[Brad P]

Well, it's all very expensive, ain't it.  These will be full sized test prints.  I want to see how it does on a black and white as well as very detailed full and colorful print. 

I've read people on other posts having success with Photo-Flo mixed with Timeless to better inpregnate paper.  I am attempting to find a method for providing a modicum of protection for exposed prints, while also hopefully not destroying the surface texture of the paper.  I haven't heard of or yet tried such a highly diluted spray. Will reply with how it goes. 

[mcbroomf]

Well, say Epson Legacy is $3/foot for a 24" roll. 

If I were trying this I'd probably print a 12" piece, 2 of them, and spray one, let it dry and compare them.  I'd think side by side I'd be able to see colour, contrast, sharpness and texture changes.  If the changes are too large then not much lost, if they are small then I'd try the big print.

[huguito]

I had the best results coating Baryta papers using the Hanehmuhle spray, its expensive, and smells like it can kill you, but the look is absolutely fantastic, and resist abrasion with my fingernail much better than the virgin surface would ever do

[Brad P]

Re noxious sprays, having used them, smelled them, and read their labels, I'm trying my hardest to avoid them.  I fully agree these products work better appearance-wise than Timeless as usually applied.

I think I'm having some significant success with this method so far.  Only further tinkering and time will tell for sure.

1st Coat.  1/4 cup Timeless gloss, 1 cup distilled water,  4 drops Photo Flo.  Note: This was only 4x water.  8x might work, but seemed too watery when I looked at it and swirled it around.
* The varnish came out of the HVLP gun unusually fast since the liquid was so watery, so fast I found a few drips running down one print.
* The paper buckled more than usual, but also relaxed more than usual as it dried.
* Very good spray dispersion
* D-Max and color saturation increased as one would expect.
* The matte (Canson Rag Photographique) fared exceptionally well at this stage.  One could hardly tell it had been sprayed other than what I thought was a slightly darker than usual D-Max pick-up.
* The baryta (Canson Platine) faired very well.  It had picked up a little glossier appearance, but the texture remained.  The Timeless seemed to soak in, or at least not interfere with the texture better than I had expected.  Photo Flo may have helped with this.  Still in the Baryta coating, I thought it felt like it was somewhat resistant to penetration as can be seen later on. 
* The main takeaway from the first coat was if you do this, spray much quicker than usual.  Err on the side of light and more coats if needed rather than full coverage as I did.  This mix is more inclined to run and spray fast.   Also, let it dry 30 minutes between coats -- even up to an hour might have been better in my more humid environment. 

2d coat. Same mix.
* I sprayed much faster and less in volume to compensate from the unintended heavier first coat.
* Baryta -- started to lose some texture and take on a shine, but most indentation texture retained.
* Matte -- excellent - still looks matte.  Darker D-Max.

3d coat. Added a splash of Timeless matte to the mix remaining in my gun.
* Baryta -- Lost a little more texture, yet the texture was still quite perceivable.  The Timeless matte resulted in a different texture than I started out with -- I'd call it a slightly RC-ish  Platine like look.  It was interesting, but it definitely was starting to lose a little bit of the raw Platine magic.
* Matte -- Some of the pores were starting to become filled and glare was starting to appear in spots.  These spots did NOT appear in the second coat.
* Takeaway from 3rd Coat.  Spray with distilled water diluted matte and Photo Flo only for the final spray next time -- do not mix with gloss.  With the water dilution, I bet I can obtain a more satin like finish on the Baryta and not have the glare problem.

I am going to wait until they are fully dry before my final water droplet, tomato sauce and window cleaner tests.  Time only will tell if they are still worthy of being called archival, but I'm thinking that's likely at this point, unless someone knows something I don't about how Photo Flo might interact with these papers.

[Brad P]

Update: Lacking windex at hand, to test durability of the finish after it cured for a few weeks, I sprayed citrus solvent and countertop cleaner on the two test prints, the citrus solvent in two different places.  For one place, I wiped the citrus solvent off after about 20 seconds.  For the other place, I wiped off what remained of the citrus solvent after it had rested on the paper about 5 minutes.  Surprisingly good results:

Baryta: No visible damage in each spot.

Matte: No visible damage in the 20 second spot.  A slightly visible lighter blotchy area where the citrus solvent remained for 5 minutes.

This will become my go-to finish for exposed float mounted prints.  It's not quite invisible, but compared to a full strength water based finish a world apart, very similar indeed to solvent based finishes that I've used, safer, and with what might hopefully be even better longevity.  Time will tell on the last bit.

[shadowblade]

A 1:4 dilution seems way too much - not only will it take forever to dry, but you also won't be getting a large mass of Timeless deep into the paper. What gets there will get there very quickly, since it's a thin solution, but I'm less than certain you'd be putting down enough Timeless to get a thick, durable layer deep within the paper.

I currently use a 4:1 dilution with a bit of Photo-Flo. Multiple light sprays, letting it sink in and fully dry each time. Gloss for every layer except the last (and sometimes even that). You can achieve everything from matte to a high gloss by varying the number of coatings and the composition of the final coating.

This works very well on Breathing Color matte papers - fine with me, since BC papers and canvasses also exhibit best-in-class longevity ratings for their paper type. Canson matte papers don't seem nearly as absorbent. Barytas are even less so (and I'd question whether the Timeless even penetrates the baryta layer into the paper base at all). For these papers, you'd probably need a thinner solution. Even so, I'd be very reluctant to go thinner than 1:1 - it's no use having a solution that sinks in quickly and evenly if it isn't carrying a large mass of Timeless with it.

One final test that's worth doing - try tearing the paper. Ideally, it should end up much harder to tear than the initial paper - rather like a sheet of plastic (which is essentially what you're trying to turn it into). Then cut a section of it and see how deeply the Timeless is penetrating - deep into the paper base, or not getting past the baryta layer at all (mixing food dye with it will help you better see if the solution is getting past the baryta layer, but won't tell you how deep into the paper base it gets, since the dye will become separated from the Timeless due to different rates of adsorption to the coating on the paper fibres).

[Brad P]

Thanks Shadowblade.   Your previous posts inspired me to use photo-flo and experiment a bit on dilution. 

This method is not for anyone who wants to piggyback off of Breathing Color's standard application processes and archival representations when selling artwork.  Rather it's for those who want to preserve the texture and appearance of paper as much as possible for exposed paper prints, while providing meaningful protection to the artwork. 

I just tried the tear test and there was practically no difference between tearing the paper and tearing the coated print.  Using the 1:4 thinner dilution did not result in the type of acrylic surface build up one would see in typical applications of Breathing Color's Timeless (or Glamour) products. 

I also tore the paper very obliquely so that it exposed each papers depth at a very wide and deep frayed angle.  (And I also did the tape tear method mentioned in another post which didn't work as well.).  The BC product appears to have penetrated enough so that the inks on both the Baryta and Matte papers were encapsulated with the product (no inks were observed on non-inked sides of the frayed paper, or visa versa).

In particular, I strongly doubt that this method of application would provide equivalent UV protection or mar resistance as a standard application of Timeless.  But it did very well penetrating, protecting the inks and surface texture appearance of the print, while eliminating gloss differential, and deepening color saturation and Dmax. It's certainly more home friendly than a bare print and more user friendly than solvent based applications.

[shadowblade]

Thanks Shadowblade.   Your previous posts inspired me to use photo-flo and experiment a bit on dilution. 

This method is not for anyone who wants to piggyback off of Breathing Color's standard application processes and archival representations when selling artwork.  Rather it's for those who want to preserve the texture and appearance of paper as much as possible for exposed paper prints, while providing meaningful protection to the artwork. 

I just tried the tear test and there was practically no difference between tearing the paper and tearing the coated print.  Using the 1:4 thinner dilution did not result in the type of acrylic surface build up one would see in typical applications of Breathing Color's Timeless (or Glamour) products.

That sort of appearance would be ideal.

The 1:4 solution probably sinks in very deeply, but doesn't carry very much Timeless along with it, hence the lack of tear strength. Are you allowing it to completely dry (for 24 hours or longer) between coatings? An incompletely-dry paper (which may feel dry on the surface) may still contain a layer of moisture clogging pores deep in the paper, which could prevent subsequent coatings from penetrating as deeply.

With 4:1, you get a very tough surface, but the appearance changes; with the right application of coatings, you can end up with a waxy-looking surface that isn't at all unpleasant or artificial-looking.

In terms of maximising physical strength while minimising change in physical appearance, I'd like to do some experiments with vacuum impregnation, either via a vacuum chamber or a vacuum table (you'd be able to build either at home using easily-acquired components - just need the physical space). After all, you can vacuum-impregnate a banana, a liver or a human heart with plastics, maintaining the physical appearance while making them as durable as a lump of plastic.

The two things stopping Timeless and other coatings from just soaking right through the paper is the air in between the fibres and the surface tension of the solution. Adding a surfactant greatly reduces the surface tension and allows it to penetrate the pores much more easily, but it must still displace the air that already occupies that space. Even soaking a print in a vat of Timeless won't allow it to penetrate the paper, since the air must still escape first. Get rid of that air, though, and Timeless should be able to saturate the paper quickly and completely.

With a vacuum chamber, you'd probably fill the bottom of the tank with Timeless (taking care to control the temperature to prevent it from boiling once the pressure is removed - you'd need to do it close to the freezing temperature of water to avoid this) and hold the print out of the Timeless. Turn on the vacuum and all the air is removed, including that which occupies the spaces within the paper. Lower the paper into the Timeless and let it soak - after half an hour (or even less) it should be well and truly saturated. Remove the print from the Timeless and turn the vacuum back on - the increased pressure will push even more Timeless into the paper, leaving a fairly dry surface. Remove the print from the tank, then wipe away whatever excess remains on the surface. You should then end up with a print that's essentially one thick layer of Timeless, with minimal change to the surface appearance.

With a vacuum table, you'd probably place a dry blanket over the table, the print on top of that, a thick blanket saturated with Timeless on top of the print and an airtight layer of plastic on top of that. Turn on the vacuum. The Timeless will be drawn from the soaked blanket on top, through the print and into the dry blanket beneath, saturating the print in the process. It would probably take longer than the vacuum chamber method, though, and I'm not sure it would be as complete (although it should be close).

I also tore the paper very obliquely so that it exposed each papers depth at a very wide and deep frayed angle.  (And I also did the tape tear method mentioned in another post which didn't work as well.).  The BC product appears to have penetrated enough so that the inks on both the Baryta and Matte papers were encapsulated with the product (no inks were observed on non-inked sides of the frayed paper, or visa versa).

This is probably the most important point - it demonstrates that the image layer is fully encapsulated by the Timeless, which eliminates a major source of failure - flaking and delamination - and greatly impedes gas fading from gases coming up from behind the image.

Did it also go through the baryta layer?

In particular, I strongly doubt that this method of application would provide equivalent UV protection or mar resistance as a standard application of Timeless.  But it did very well penetrating, protecting the inks and surface texture appearance of the print, while eliminating gloss differential, and deepening color saturation and Dmax. It's certainly more home friendly than a bare print and more user friendly than solvent based applications.

Actually, the protection would probably be pretty good, and likely better than the solvent-based sprays, which are less likely to form a gas-impermeable layer, are more prone to cracking over time (due to the different polymer used - those in Timeless are designed to stretch with canvas, while those in solvent sprays are brittle) and don't protect the image layer from behind.

UV light can't do very much if the pigment isn't also in contact with a reactive molecule that a UV-ionised pigment molecule can react with. It can still break covalent bonds (although they'll often just re-form straight away, since it's usually energetically favourable for the bond to be there), but that's just about it.

In any case, the best protection for an image on display are the windows and curtains in the room.

[Brad P]

I let the Timeless dry for a couple hours between coats, but you raise an excellent point that 24 hours would be better to ensure the interior of the paper is as dry as it will get so that the next coat has a better chance of penetrating the paper, especially in my more humid environment. 

No room for a vacuum press right now, though I'd be interested to see any results with what you propose. 

This application did penetrate the baryta layer meaningfully, but not much if any into the paper beneath.  I know this because of the tear test but more significantly because this particular baryta paper was Canson Platine, a paper somewhat notoriously famous for its thickness and brittle coating that is prone to crack and flake at the edges when trimmed.  I ran an Olfa blade to cut the print on a self healing mat quite a number of times to see if this application solved that cracking/flaking problem. It did, but on the somewhat soft self healing mat I could see that in some places the baryta layer sunk into the mat causing the underlying soft rag paper edge to pull apart a bit, leaving a cleanly cut edge with no flakes or cracks, but a wider edge that was observable in places on a close inspection, especially because of the somewhat reflective baryta coating (a rag surface wouldn't likely reveal this).   If this isn't clear, think of pulling a cotton ball apart a little bit and stretching the fibers without breaking it -- that's what happened with the underlying rag layer.  I also cut the Platine on glass instead of a mat a few times which appeared to solve that separation problem (but which will up the need for regular replacement Olfa blades!).