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Author Topic: What does it take, 50+ dead?  (Read 11528 times)

Christopher Sanderson

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2016, 09:35:14 pm »

Notwithstanding the subject, please keep this discussion civil.

At this point further inflammation with the use of derogatory language toward other posters is to be avoided

Chris

tom b

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2016, 10:54:05 pm »

In Australia we have just marked the "Port Arthur Massacre" of 28–29 April 1996 in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded. Since then we have had gun control started by a conservative government. We have had no mass shootings since then.

With regrets,

Can I lock this link Chris?



« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 10:58:17 pm by tom b »
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Tom Brown

BernardLanguillier

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2016, 12:35:11 am »

Since it is pretty obvious that free guns results in a high number of deaths globally, is there more to the topic than the selfishness from those guys who want to protect themselves with guns at the cost of the lifes of unknown children somewhere else?

Cheers,
Bernard

shotupdave

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2016, 12:41:20 am »

The US government was aware of the radical beliefs that the shooter held several years ago.  But in fact he was working as a sub-contractor for the Dept. of Homeland Security, relocating illegal aliens.  Well the news agencies have stated that the killer self identified as a follower of ISIS.  Are you saying that ISIS isn't a terrorist organization.  And I don't think they limit their kill list to homosexuals.  I hear they're not so nice to Shia or Christians, or Zoroastrians. 

As far as gun control, I believe the French are pretty restrictive on gun ownership but that didn't do much for the people in that theater. They just had to stay there and wait their turn to be murdered.  Pretty dismal fate.  All the places in the US with the most hand gun violence have the most restrictive gun laws (namely cities like Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta).  I think the expression that sums it up best is "when you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns."  Some people prefer to give themselves a sporting chance at survival.  I can't really blame them.

The automatic guns were smuggle into france illegally. And the guns found in the cities you named are usually bought in surrounding states that have very lax gun purchasing laws.

And this saying is completely vapid of any intellect. I think it quite amusing that people such as you, think its easy to pull a firearm out and shoot another human.
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Alan Klein

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2016, 01:00:41 am »

The killer was an Islamic terrorist who called 911 emergency services before the attack to tell the police of his sworn allegiance to al-Baghdadi and ISIS.  He was a guard licensed to carry weapons.  Blaming this on lack of gun control or as a criminal act is just ignoring the fact that we are at war with these people.  Have you all forgotten that 911 terror that killed 3000 was committed with airplanes.  They will use bombs if guns aren't available, or planes or anything else,  and will use weapons of mass destruction if and when they get their hands on them.  Our leaders are trying to divert our attention from their failure to protect us by ignoring we are at war and blaming gun control and hateful people as the source of the problem.  Don't let them fool you.

tim wolcott

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2016, 01:45:15 am »

Wake up people bad people will always get guns.  Wether its the legal way or non legal.  Criminals wether they are gangsters, terrorists or just bad intent.  If they can't get guns they will make bombs with just simple ingredients you can buy.  Do I believe they should get a gun like this at a gun store NO. 

We should take away knives they kill more people but not in mass shootings.  He's a crazy terrorist, the only good one is a dead one.

Australia when they took away the guns, gun crime went up by 1200%. So thats not the answer.  BAD PEOPLE WILL DO BAD THINGS.
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shotupdave

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2016, 01:47:00 am »

that is just a red herring response, this man just before the shooting got bery upset at two men kissing in public. He was a guard that was allowed to only carry while on duty. Not calling this a criminal act is what it is.

This has nothing to do with the government not protecting us. You are now entering the arena of conspiracy theories. This kind of shooting occurred before 9/11 and will continue to happen. We live in a society now that hatred and violence against those we hate i becoming more acceptable. Just look at the rhetoric and vileness of Donald Trump.  Romney, came out a few days ago and beautifully put it out in plain simple words.

Trump is endorsing and promoting trickle down bigotry.

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shotupdave

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2016, 01:47:52 am »

that is just a red herring response, this man just before the shooting got bery upset at two men kissing in public. He was a guard that was allowed to only carry while on duty. Not calling this a criminal act is what it is.

This has nothing to do with the government not protecting us. You are now entering the arena of conspiracy theories. This kind of shooting occurred before 9/11 and will continue to happen. We live in a society now that hatred and violence against those we hate i becoming more acceptable. Just look at the rhetoric and vileness of Donald Trump.  Romney, came out a few days ago and beautifully put it out in plain simple words.

Trump is endorsing and promoting trickle down bigotry.

can you actually cite a source where gun cfimes rose in australia?
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tom b

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2016, 01:50:21 am »

Really!

There were 372 mass shootings in the US in 2015, killing 475 people and wounding 1,870.

There were 64 school shootings in 2015.

Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015.

The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK.

Forget terrorists, you are doing a much better job of killing yourselves than they are. Yes, I did mention that if you own a gun you are more likely to kill yourself with it than anything else.

Source the BBC

So what will it take for Americans to take gun control seriously? I don't know!
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Tom Brown

Chairman Bill

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2016, 02:32:43 am »

The per capita rate of gun ownership is higher in Canada, yet Canada doesn't suffer anywhere near the same amount of firearms-related deaths or mass shootings.

Whilst I'd certainly back some form of gun control, something else is wrong in the US.

shotupdave

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2016, 02:56:40 am »

actually we are number 1 with gun ownership with 112 guns per capita, canada is 12 with 30 per capita.

And here in the US, the states with the most lax gun control laws have more murders per capita.

Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
South Carolina
Maryland
Nevada
Delaware
Alabama
Georgia
Tennessee


« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 03:00:45 am by shotupdave »
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Manoli

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2016, 03:44:29 am »

Whilst I'd certainly back some form of gun control, something else is wrong in the US.

Yes, starting with the fact as recently as last December, 54 Senate Republicans blocked a bill that would have denied convicted felons, the mentally ill and anyone on a terrorist watch list ( 'a person of interest' in FBI terminology) the legal right to buy weapons and explosives. Those Republicans included all four recent Rep Presidential nominee candidates Rubio, Cruz, Paul and Graham. They also blocked a bill which would have allowed for expanded background checks.

Such is the influence of the NRA - and we're still discussing ... what ?
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Chairman Bill

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2016, 04:24:27 am »

actually we are number 1 with gun ownership with 112 guns per capita, canada is 12 with 30 per capita.
My mistake

Rob C

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2016, 06:01:26 am »

actually we are number 1 with gun ownership with 112 guns per capita, canada is 12 with 30 per capita.

And here in the US, the states with the most lax gun control laws have more murders per capita.

Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
South Carolina
Maryland
Nevada
Delaware
Alabama
Georgia
Tennessee


Just in case I don't get this: are you saying that, in the States, there are 112 guns for each person? (And some think photographers are a bit nuts in their spending habits...)

Why does anyone need more than one, or perhaps two - just in case they don't have time to reload, in which latter case, they'd probably end up dead anyway?

As for suicide: well, that's their own decision, and nobody needs a gun to do that - it's just neater and more certain than jumping off a low building.

tom b

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2016, 06:36:43 am »

"As for suicide: well, that's their own decision, and nobody needs a gun to do that - it's just neater and more certain than jumping off a low building".

 Rob you are right, my brother killed himself with over the counter drugs. It changed my life forever. If you own a gun in the US you will be more likely to kill yourself with it than anything else.

With remorse,
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Tom Brown

Otto Phocus

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2016, 06:45:35 am »

"But the problem of gun suicide is inescapable: More than 60 percent of people in this country who die from guns die by suicide".

I am wondering why this is a problem.  If someone wishes to commit suicide, that is their decision. Since 1984, suicide has been decriminalized in the US and we have not seen any change in the suicide rates. 

Suicide is a contentious topic and people have strong opinions on both sides of the issue. It is a decision that has a profound impact on the family/friends. But ultimately, it is the decision of the individual.

According to the CDC, it is only in the age group 18-24 where homicide rates are higher than suicide and even those rates are pretty close.  In the other age groups, suicide rates are higher (in some cases much  higher) than homicide. Suicide is, if you pardon the morbid pun, a fact of life in the US and I imagine in other countries too.

While I was very sad when someone close to me committed suicide, I also respect their decision.
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tom b

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2016, 07:26:50 am »

"While I was very sad when someone close to me committed suicide, I also respect their decision".

Obviously suicide is still an abstract concept to you. It can turn your world around in many ways, it has mine. Respect the survivors.


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Tom Brown

kers

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2016, 07:39:32 am »

Right Bart, and it's probably worth mentioning that some of the most horrendous shootings have taken place in "gun free" zones.
Yes i guess this bar was also a "gun free" zone until...

I do not think the problem would have been less if all the persons in the bar were carrying a gun...
And usually the atmosphere in the bar with all these armed people would be a different one...
Not the atmosphere they were looking for.


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Pieter Kers
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Otto Phocus

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2016, 08:10:56 am »

"While I was very sad when someone close to me committed suicide, I also respect their decision".

Obviously suicide is still an abstract concept to you. It can turn your world around in many ways, it has mine. Respect the survivors.

There is room to respect both, is there not? I am not sure you think suicide is an abstract concept.

My years on the EMS squads have moved suicide from the abstract to the objective.

It is not a pleasant topic, but one that also should not be marginalized.
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AlterEgo

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Re: What does it take, 50+ dead?
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2016, 08:55:24 am »

Fifty plus dead, what does it take for Americans to take gun control seriously.

Gun control.

WTF,

this specific case is not about the gun control - this is about reaping the results of what the country did in the mid-east since 1950s...
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