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Author Topic: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?  (Read 14027 times)

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2016, 11:16:05 am »

This is a fun thread:) I have learned, since my days in the university as a field geologist, to learn how to handle:

1. Farm or rural property owners
2. Cows and bulls

Number 1 above can be dangerous, since they have no clue of why you should be walking on their land. The often have a shotgun too.

Number 2 above can also be dangerous, of course. One way to mitigate the danger is to inform number 1 and elicit some help:)

Zorki5

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2016, 04:51:34 pm »

Quote
How to handle bulls when on a shoot?

Oh, that's easy. Here, all you have to do:

1. Pick a small bull,
2. Pick a big (long) lens.

Done. As long as you follow my expert advice, you should be fine...

Free master class:
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NancyP

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2016, 04:16:55 pm »

Too much cute, Zorki5.  :D
In the USA, dumb tourists get out of their cars to pet the bison at Yellowstone. PET the BISON. This is a Darwin award story waiting to happen. Bison bull is to domestic bull as Humvee is to Toyota compact. We have a local park with a few bison, it's roll down the car window and shoot from the car, watching carefully for signs of tension in the animal and being ready to drop the camera in your lap and floor it out of there.
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Justinr

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2016, 06:40:50 pm »

Today I ended up in a situation that I would rather not again but you can't always predict the future so I'll ask for advice...

In various parts of Europe, cows (& bulls) seem to roam wherever feeding on grass.

Today it so happened that I found myself in a paddock with cows (which have never caused concern) setting up my camera when a rustle in the grass drew my attention to an approaching young bull. I was completely unprepared for this, especially as his attention did not seem to want to waver (or go back to eating grass.) As I'm not very familiar with cows (aside from drinking milk and eating beef), I don't know if this is a seasonal thing or to be expected. I suspect that what it boils down to is that effectively I'm an intruder in "his" domain where "his" breeding partners are. After a bit of staring at each other, I decided that it was time to pack up and find a way out. To my benefit there was a large bunch of trees maybe 6' away, so it was a matter of working out how to pick everything up without turning my head - I considered the bull no less dangerous than a bear and with bears you never turn your back. The bull was close enough for me to give him a poke in the nose with my tripod and that was enough to get him to recoil back, leading me to flinch (complete with calf cramp) but giving me time & space to pickup things and get amongst the trees. At this point the bull watched a little while longer and then lost interest, eating his way to the other side of the field and I limped on away throught the trees, abondoning the shoot.

So I survived my stupidity (going into the field amongst them) but I'm left wondering, was I really in danger or was I just the subject of increased curiosity because cattle increasingly see humans as things that feed them, etc. Or even still, are there other things that I could have done to get out of that situation? Think no gun and I'm alone ... Is there any safe way to traverse a field with cattle in it?

First things first, are you sure it was a bull? It may well have been a male but castrated, usually known as a bullock or a steer in these parts. Not much to worry about there and if it got close enough for you to poke without charging then I guess it was such a beast and merely being inquisitive. Problems can arise when a group stampedes but that is a herd reaction rather than a deliberate attack upon another animal (you).

Secondly, if a bull is in with cows then they are usually fairly quite but there are so many variables involved that there is no guarantee about that. Breed is the major factor here with Herefords tending to being  docile while channel Island breeds like the Jersey are never let out of their pen due to being right mean b'stards!

Cows are usually very docile indeed, problematic animals are weeded out of herds and temperament is often a factor in breeding decisions. The exception is when with newborn calves when they can be aggressive but just so long as you steer clear you'll have no problems.

One further tip is that if bulls are old enough to be aggressive (about 8 months onwards,  there is no hard and fast rule) you will not see two together in the same field but it's still worth counting the dangly bits; one means its a bullock, two means it's a bull and four indicates its a cow.

All this relates to farming in the UK and Ireland and it may be different where you are, but whatever the location a lowered head waved from side to side, regular snorting and pawing the ground are signs that you best make yourself scarce!
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Justinr

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2016, 11:51:30 am »

A couple I took last week for a farm supply company.
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Hulyss

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2016, 05:43:35 pm »

Today I ended up in a situation that I would rather not again but you can't always predict the future so I'll ask for advice...

In various parts of Europe, cows (& bulls) seem to roam wherever feeding on grass.

Today it so happened that I found myself in a paddock with cows (which have never caused concern) setting up my camera when a rustle in the grass drew my attention to an approaching young bull. I was completely unprepared for this, especially as his attention did not seem to want to waver (or go back to eating grass.) As I'm not very familiar with cows (aside from drinking milk and eating beef), I don't know if this is a seasonal thing or to be expected. I suspect that what it boils down to is that effectively I'm an intruder in "his" domain where "his" breeding partners are. After a bit of staring at each other, I decided that it was time to pack up and find a way out. To my benefit there was a large bunch of trees maybe 6' away, so it was a matter of working out how to pick everything up without turning my head - I considered the bull no less dangerous than a bear and with bears you never turn your back. The bull was close enough for me to give him a poke in the nose with my tripod and that was enough to get him to recoil back, leading me to flinch (complete with calf cramp) but giving me time & space to pickup things and get amongst the trees. At this point the bull watched a little while longer and then lost interest, eating his way to the other side of the field and I limped on away throught the trees, abondoning the shoot.

So I survived my stupidity (going into the field amongst them) but I'm left wondering, was I really in danger or was I just the subject of increased curiosity because cattle increasingly see humans as things that feed them, etc. Or even still, are there other things that I could have done to get out of that situation? Think no gun and I'm alone ... Is there any safe way to traverse a field with cattle in it?

Hello dreed,

Well... I use to live in a very rural environment. When I give up retouching in the dark I go take care of my horses, not simple horses but Breton horse around a tone. They gentle but sometimes violent and can kill you very easily especially when aroused.

Here is Belem in "reproduction mode". We do it natural and it is dangerous.



I use also to help my neighbour when he needs helps with his cows. There is one rule : The bulls are less dangerous than the cows. They are dangerous when aroused like all animal of this order but generally bulls in field are non violent and selected for. If a bull is violent he is killed quickly and not breed. The farmers make a rigorous selection also on the comportment of the animals (like with horses). So generally bulls are meat and balls on legs. They are gentle. The cows are gentle but more vicious and can be violent if their is calf in the field so you might watch out if there is calf first.

When in field, if you think they are too close and start to pee in your pants, then scream and use a wooden stick. You should mimic their master. If those are semi wild cows like in US they are used to fear their master on a horse. Then you must use a Pocket Airhorn. Trust me he will brake like front a fire and run his ass off.
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muntanela

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2016, 06:08:05 pm »

Lina, Nanda and the others
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 06:27:10 pm by muntanela »
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Justinr

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2016, 06:50:33 pm »

Lina, Nanda and the others

Are they Swiss Browns or a local breed? They certainly look at home up there.

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muntanela

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2016, 11:46:54 pm »

Are they Swiss Browns or a local breed? They certainly look at home up there.

They are italian "Razza Bruna" (Braunvieh), originally born in Switzerland thousand years ago. According to the swiss site "Braunvieh/Razza bruna" http://homepage.braunvieh.ch/xml_1/internet/en/intro.cfm
there are three breeds of Braunvieh:

 
    "Swiss Original Braunvieh: 100% full blood pedigree; dual purpose breed
    Swiss Braunvieh: different degree of mating; dual purpose with strong emphasis on milk performance 
    Brown Swiss: Braunvieh reared in the US; milk breed"

"In the late 1960s the demand for higher milk performance and larger-framed cattle increased. In order to achieve these traits more rapidly, many Braunvieh cattle breeders used American Brown Swiss genetics in their mating programs. Staunch Braunvieh breeders, instead, insisted on pure breeding. They improved milk performance through a rigorous selection within the OB population while strictly preserving the beef attitude."

I think Lina and Nanda are (more or less) of the second breed, "Swiss Braunvieh",  with a a part of the blood coming (more or less) from the american Brown Swiss. But they could be even more "Original". The local breeders have regular business relations with the swiss  breeders (even with the "staunchest" ).
 Here  a photo of the owner.





« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 07:42:14 am by muntanela »
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Justinr

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2016, 06:27:14 am »

They are italian "Razza Bruna" (Braunvieh), originally born in Switzerland thousand years ago. According to the swiss site "Braunvieh/Razza bruna" http://homepage.braunvieh.ch/xml_1/internet/en/intro.cfm
there are three breeds of Braunvieh:

 
    "Swiss Original Braunvieh: 100% full blood pedigree; dual purpose breed
    Swiss Braunvieh: different degree of mating; dual purpose with strong emphasis on milk performance 
    Brown Swiss: Braunvieh reared in the US; milk breed"

"In the late 1960s the demand for higher milk performance and larger-framed cattle increased. In order to achieve these traits more rapidly, many Braunvieh cattle breeders used American Brown Swiss genetics in their mating programs. Staunch Braunvieh breeders, instead, insisted on pure breeding. They improved milk performance through a rigorous selection within the OB population while strictly preserving the beef attitude."

I think Lina and Nanda are (more or less) of the second breed, "Swiss Braunvieh",  with a a part of the blood coming (more or less) from the american Brown Swiss. But they could be even more "Original". The local breeders have regular business relations with the swiss  breeders (even with the "staunchest" ).
 Here  a photo of the owner.

It makes a pleasant change to see the higher passes of the alps portrayed as an agricultural area. As a general rule we only see it them as a series of ski resorts or backdrops to advertisements and highly implausible thrillers. The fact that they have an alternative existence away from the glamour associated with them is refreshing and really quite touching, and thanks for bringing us those views.

Interesting what you say about the breed, after a while there is so much intermingling of the strains that differentiation between them becomes almost meaningless other than an indication of what their attributes and performance might be. The same happened with Holstein and Frisian breeds in the UK. It was basically the same Dutch breed but the UK farmers developed it as dual purpose animal while on the continent it was bred purely for milk production which led to larger beasts less suited for beef production. Now the two breeds are once again treated as one and the same although there is a smaller Frisian type that some farmers prefer while others go all out for Holstein milk machines.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 07:16:25 am by Justinr »
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Justinr

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2016, 08:08:01 am »

Hello dreed,

Well... I use to live in a very rural environment. When I give up retouching in the dark I go take care of my horses, not simple horses but Breton horse around a tone. They gentle but sometimes violent and can kill you very easily especially when aroused.

Here is Belem in "reproduction mode". We do it natural and it is dangerous.



I use also to help my neighbour when he needs helps with his cows. There is one rule : The bulls are less dangerous than the cows. They are dangerous when aroused like all animal of this order but generally bulls in field are non violent and selected for. If a bull is violent he is killed quickly and not breed. The farmers make a rigorous selection also on the comportment of the animals (like with horses). So generally bulls are meat and balls on legs. They are gentle. The cows are gentle but more vicious and can be violent if their is calf in the field so you might watch out if there is calf first.

When in field, if you think they are too close and start to pee in your pants, then scream and use a wooden stick. You should mimic their master. If those are semi wild cows like in US they are used to fear their master on a horse. Then you must use a Pocket Airhorn. Trust me he will brake like front a fire and run his ass off.

That's a fine horse and the conformation is so different from what would find favour over here where a much squarer and less 'padded' look is preferred for the draught animals.

In our horse keeping days we had one mare that kicked a clean, neatly defined hole in the shape of a hoof through a sheet of 12mm plywood. Should anyone have been unlucky enough to have been on the receiving end of that they I doubt they would have lived to tell us about it.

Ireland is still a very horse orientated country and I've also attached a photo taken at show I was covering yesterday. .

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graeme

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2016, 07:18:32 pm »

These guys couldn't be bothered to hassle anyone.
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Justinr

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2016, 08:36:56 am »

These guys couldn't be bothered to hassle anyone.

Them's shaggy cows with horns!   :)
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2016, 09:57:06 am »

Beware the staring ones:)

MattBurt

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2016, 10:20:15 am »

To bring things back on topic I have had a couple of scary encounters over the years with open range cattle and bulls. Usually there are only cows or steers but occasionally a bull is among them. Once on my mountain bike in a canyon I have a face-off with one where I tried to get my companions to help intimidate the bull into backing down so we could get through. We waved arms and yelled and approached with bikes held high but then when the bull started tossing its head and pawing the ground my friends back off leaving me standing there not immediately realizing I no longer had a posse! The bull never charged but also never backed down and we had to scramble up the side of the canyon to get around him. It was a long scratchy tick-filled climb carrying bikes. Not fun!

My advice is give them plenty of respect. Sounds like you handled it well except for being aware of him to begin with.
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DanLehman

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2016, 08:56:55 pm »

I've learned something about cattle, here!

And I'm reminded of an old cartoon:
tourist guy in field (w/bovine resident) asks a nearby farmer, "Is this bull safe?" and gets the reply "He's a darn sight safer than you!"
 ;D
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