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Author Topic: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?  (Read 14043 times)

tom b

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 06:57:21 pm »

Tony,

"On the African continent the animal regarded as the most dangerous is the Cape Buffalo". Or maybe…

"Although hippos may look cute and friendly, they are definitely one animal you do not want to cross. Easily frightened and extremely aggressive, hippos will not hesitate to attack a human, especially if one of its young babies are near. Hippos pose the biggest threat to those living in the continent of Africa.

Death Toll: 300+ per year

See more here.

Cheers,

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Tom Brown

Colorado David

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 07:01:18 pm »

Your topic veers off to politics and you single me out? Good call. I posted appropriate information about domestic bulls. Maybe you missed that.

dreed

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 09:32:28 pm »

Lets not be too harsh on David.
Perhaps it is my bad for generalising the issue and taking it beyond merely being chased around by bulls in Europe.

It wasn't just that that irked me, does everything need to involve politics? FFS (DDT & Sky news) .... it's just that his post got the reply.

To not beat around the bush, the most dangerous animal on the planet is the homo sapien - unless there is another that has developed the capability to at will wipe out most living life? But where does talk about that get us aside from another rat hole?

The challenge is how do we survive situations such as being face to face with animals that are much bigger than us? I'm going to assume that the Crocodile Dundee trick of two fingers is just a movie stunt. For example, if you read up on bears on NPS for Yosemite, the recommended course of action in that scenario is to be loud and obnoxious (because bears are cowards.) Does the same work with other animals, such as bulls?
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Colorado David

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 10:19:52 pm »

No. Domestic bulls have lost their fear of humans. They retain their wild disposition, but no longer fear man. You have to keep your awareness about you and try to keep an appropriate obsticle close that you can put between you and the bull.

LesPalenik

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 10:33:34 pm »

Quote
... the recommended course of action in that scenario is to be loud and obnoxious
I thought, we were not supposed to mention politics. :)

When it comes to best tactics how to avoid a bear, it depends on the bear species.
From what I've read, if is is a black bear, you are supposed to make a lot of noise, and if he gets really close or into your tent, you should beat him with a rock or some log, With grizzlies, the general consensus is that you should slowly retreat or play dead. However, those sources also state that the recommended methods apply only for non-predatory bears.

Two years ago, a hiker in Denali was quietly observing and photographing a grizzly at a distance of 40 yards, when something (camera shutter, maybe?) spooked the bear and in no time (13 seconds, judging from the image timestamps), he sprinted and permanently silenced the shooter. In Ontario, I had some close encounters with black bears (once a female bear crossed a hiking trail just a few meters if front of me) and several times in a canoe or fishing boat coming unexpectedly upon juvenile and male bears exploring the rocky shores. Fortunately, they all scampered away without any incident.

With a raging bull, I would take off my jacket, and improvise some bold torero moves while simultaneously retreating to the safety of some trees or other sturdy objects.
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kencameron

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 11:01:42 pm »

Right, David. And we once had a solution to this problem: DDT. Then Rachel Carson, an "environmental advocate" who was worried about birds not being able to reproduce (which, as it turns out isn't necessarily true) wrote Silent Spring. The left leapt into action and banned DDT. As a result, now, instead of keeping birds from reproducing we're killing massive numbers of people, especially in countries that can't afford other kinds of protection. It's a typical example of government intelligence and efficiency.
This is simplistic. Look here for a balanced account of what  happened. DDT wasn't banned in the USA until 8 years after Carson's death, and continued to be manufactured in India and China until well into the 21st Century. Carson wasn't a fan of more federal regulation. And the return of malaria around the world was not caused by the banning of DDT in the USA. There are complicated stories here which have been mythologised both on the left and on the right. The only unequivocal conclusions I am inclined to draw from my own limited knowledge of them are about the law of unintended consequences, and the need for more research. It does give me some comfort that Bill and Melinda are on the case.
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Ken Cameron

tom b

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2016, 03:28:36 am »

Fences are great for protecting you from cattle.
Brangus cattle at Arthur Boyd's Bundanon.
Cheers,
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Tom Brown

kencameron

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2016, 04:04:49 am »

Nice shots. Capturing well the wildness and scariness of cattle.
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Ken Cameron

Tony Jay

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2016, 08:35:42 am »

It wasn't just that that irked me, does everything need to involve politics? FFS (DDT & Sky news) .... it's just that his post got the reply.

To not beat around the bush, the most dangerous animal on the planet is the homo sapien - unless there is another that has developed the capability to at will wipe out most living life? But where does talk about that get us aside from another rat hole?

The challenge is how do we survive situations such as being face to face with animals that are much bigger than us? I'm going to assume that the Crocodile Dundee trick of two fingers is just a movie stunt. For example, if you read up on bears on NPS for Yosemite, the recommended course of action in that scenario is to be loud and obnoxious (because bears are cowards.) Does the same work with other animals, such as bulls?
I have to agree with David here.
Bravado will often scare off most animals - including African big cats - however, even if a bull retreats initially I would not regard the situation as sorted. The moment one lets one's guard down (and even if one does not) an aggressive bull will often charge again.
The stock market analogy describing the behaviour of investors does not use the bear and the bull as examples for nothing.

Tony Jay
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Tony Jay

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2016, 09:19:27 am »

Tony,

"On the African continent the animal regarded as the most dangerous is the Cape Buffalo". Or maybe…

"Although hippos may look cute and friendly, they are definitely one animal you do not want to cross. Easily frightened and extremely aggressive, hippos will not hesitate to attack a human, especially if one of its young babies are near. Hippos pose the biggest threat to those living in the continent of Africa.

Death Toll: 300+ per year

See more here.

Cheers,
Tom I agree entirely with you that Hippos are dangerous.
If one is on or in the water and there are hippos with young nearby then there is definite danger from aggressive hippos attacking one.
Outside the water, on land, there is still plenty of danger if hippos are close by, however in this case fatalities are usually due to blind panic on the part of the hippo - one just gets, literally, run over by the hippo as its makes for the water at best pace.
This is not aggression; the hippo is just rushing to get to the safety of the water.
Either way of course they do kill.

Cape buffalo, on the other hand, never kill by default.
Their aggression, mean spirit, and persistence are legendary.
They are known to deliberately "hunt" an adversary including tactics such as circling back and ambush.
This is extraordinary behaviour from a species that is a herbivore!

In general Africa is full of potentially very dangerous animals.
Crocodiles are also responsible for plenty of fatalities.
Venomous snakes are likely responsible tens to hundreds of thousands of deaths per annum in Africa.
This is mainly due to a lack of healthcare and access to appropriate antivenins.

However, as has already been pointed out, the Anopheline mosquito is the biggest killer in Africa being responsible for the spread of malaria, Yellow fever, and Dengue fever. Combined with poor healthcare the result is absolute carnage, particularly in the under-five age group.

Tony Jay
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graeme

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2016, 10:00:38 am »

My niece, Zoe is a dairy farmer.

We walked out into one of the fields on her farm to see her new Aberdeen Angus & a couple of dozen cows ran towards us & surrounded us. Normally I'd have run like hell ( I'm a confirmed townie - even more so after spending a few years living in rural areas ) but Zoe know cows so I stayed out with her & tried to get some photos. It was quite a powerful experience being surrounded by such large animals, the fact that dusk was falling added to the atmosphere.

I asked her how you should deal with cows: She said that cows on their own shouldn't be a problem - just stay relaxed & you should be OK. If they come towards you they're probably just curious ( as were the ones which had surrounded us ). Re cows with calves, keep away from the calves - move towards the cows if you can't get away completely. Of course if you have a dog with you this can change everything.

Bulls - carry a stick.

Some pix of Splodge, Zoe's favourite cow. This one was an absolute sweetie, very friendly & curious.
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elliot_n

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2016, 10:05:13 am »

Yes, dogs are frequently the trigger.

76 people killed by cows in the UK in the last 15 years:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cows-officially-the-most-deadly-large-animals-in-britain-a6727266.html
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RSL

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2016, 10:42:36 am »

This is simplistic. Look here for a balanced account of what  happened. DDT wasn't banned in the USA until 8 years after Carson's death, and continued to be manufactured in India and China until well into the 21st Century. Carson wasn't a fan of more federal regulation. And the return of malaria around the world was not caused by the banning of DDT in the USA. There are complicated stories here which have been mythologised both on the left and on the right. The only unequivocal conclusions I am inclined to draw from my own limited knowledge of them are about the law of unintended consequences, and the need for more research. It does give me some comfort that Bill and Melinda are on the case.

You're right, Ken. Actually I compressed the history -- sort of slammed it shut. But the world got there and it's paying the price for this kind of stupidity.
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Rob C

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2016, 12:40:56 pm »

The bovine race is getting a bad press today; I wouldn't trust a friggin' horse either, never mind a field full of them! Not only do they kick, they can crush and also bite.

Rob C

GrahamBy

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2016, 01:12:00 pm »

I hope you didn't tell him about the beef eating.

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Rob C

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2016, 03:55:39 pm »

I hope you didn't tell him about the beef eating.

The horse? He'd probably think it a good idea instead of being on the menu himself, as in some non-Brit parts of Europe...

Oh well, tomorrow's Sunday, so paella, if all goes well. No meat in there, apart from prawns. However, as I'm on a varnishing kick, perhaps it won't smell or taste as normal. (Of course, the varnish is for the shutters, not the prawns, even though it is marine varnish. I'm a bit late with it this year - I was tossing up with neglecting it or doing it this time, and in the end, conscience won. How strange.)

Rob
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 04:00:57 pm by Rob C »
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dreed

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2016, 10:10:01 am »

I chatted with someone that grew up on a farm today and their advice was "stand your ground." Don't move, just stand there and stare at the bull. If you run, you're a goner. Eventually they will get bored and walk away. Carrying a stick (or tripod!) is also useful. I must say that standing your ground is easier said than done!
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Rob C

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2016, 01:27:53 pm »

I chatted with someone that grew up on a farm today and their advice was "stand your ground." Don't move, just stand there and stare at the bull. If you run, you're a goner. Eventually they will get bored and walk away. Carrying a stick (or tripod!) is also useful. I must say that standing your ground is easier said than done!


Just think of Ava Gardner, and die happy.

Rob C

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2016, 07:34:11 pm »


Just think of Ava Gardner, and die happy.

Correct Rob, I don't think that monopod will impress the bull ...

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Rob C

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2016, 06:05:15 am »

Correct Rob, I don't think that monopod will impress the bull ...

Cheers,
Bart


Bovine envy is a sad thing; I'd have imagined the farmyard to be beyond it.

;-)

Rob
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