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Author Topic: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?  (Read 14046 times)

dreed

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How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« on: June 09, 2016, 05:39:24 pm »

Today I ended up in a situation that I would rather not again but you can't always predict the future so I'll ask for advice...

In various parts of Europe, cows (& bulls) seem to roam wherever feeding on grass.

Today it so happened that I found myself in a paddock with cows (which have never caused concern) setting up my camera when a rustle in the grass drew my attention to an approaching young bull. I was completely unprepared for this, especially as his attention did not seem to want to waver (or go back to eating grass.) As I'm not very familiar with cows (aside from drinking milk and eating beef), I don't know if this is a seasonal thing or to be expected. I suspect that what it boils down to is that effectively I'm an intruder in "his" domain where "his" breeding partners are. After a bit of staring at each other, I decided that it was time to pack up and find a way out. To my benefit there was a large bunch of trees maybe 6' away, so it was a matter of working out how to pick everything up without turning my head - I considered the bull no less dangerous than a bear and with bears you never turn your back. The bull was close enough for me to give him a poke in the nose with my tripod and that was enough to get him to recoil back, leading me to flinch (complete with calf cramp) but giving me time & space to pickup things and get amongst the trees. At this point the bull watched a little while longer and then lost interest, eating his way to the other side of the field and I limped on away throught the trees, abondoning the shoot.

So I survived my stupidity (going into the field amongst them) but I'm left wondering, was I really in danger or was I just the subject of increased curiosity because cattle increasingly see humans as things that feed them, etc. Or even still, are there other things that I could have done to get out of that situation? Think no gun and I'm alone ... Is there any safe way to traverse a field with cattle in it?
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degrub

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2016, 06:39:53 pm »

My first experience as a teenager with high hurdles involved a bull in a field that i did not see at first.... until i heard a snort behind me.

It sounds like he was just curious this time. That being said, even a cow leaning against you against something firm can do serious damage or crush something if you are not used to working them.  Have a friend spot for you or take a longer lens next time.
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tom b

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2016, 07:16:58 pm »

I was in a pub in Cape Foulwind, New Zealand. One of the locals came in most upset. A boy in his late teens had just been killed by a bull. They are not to be underestimated.
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Tom Brown

donbga

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 09:23:57 pm »

Think no gun and I'm alone ... Is there any safe way to traverse a field with cattle in it?

You mess with the bulls you get the horns. Cows not so much.

Most everything we do is a calculated risk. You make the call. Sooner or later we are bound to step in a cow pie or two.
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Tony Jay

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 09:41:02 pm »

On the African continent the animal regarded as the most dangerous is the Cape Buffalo.
Consider any other bovine as dangerous.
Bovines on farms are not pets, they are not domesticated, they are wild animals whose range just happens to be limited by a fence - treat them as such.
There is no doubt that the boys are more argumentative compared to the girls (no different from our species) and they tend to have much bigger horns to go with the attitude problem.
Other animals not to mess with include wild pigs and boars and, especially, their supposed domesticated cousins.

In general, one's apparent familiarity with animals does not make them safe, and since most of us are urban animals we don't really appreciate the dangers or how to avoid them.

Just as an aside nothing that I have written should be construed as suggesting people should not explore rural and wilderness areas, on any continent.
We just owe it to ourselves to be astride of the potential dangers involved.
In Australia arguably the greatest danger in the outback is simply breaking down or running out of fuel and dying before any help happens by.
Snakes, crocodiles, and sharks pale into insignificance in comparison.
So high frequency radios and satellite phones are an absolute necessity in these areas as well as water and food for many days for remote area travel in Australia.
There is more to it than that but it gives an idea of how things might differ depending where one goes.

Tony Jay
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elliot_n

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 10:00:50 pm »

A boy in his late teens had just been killed by a bull. They are not to be underestimated.

Cows too, at this time of year (when they're with their young).
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Colorado David

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 01:09:20 am »

When my wife was in college, the mother of a good friend of hers was killed by their own bull.  She had walked across that pasture every day for years with no trouble, but that day, the bull killed her.  I regard domestic bulls as more dangerous than bears.  Truly wild bears have a natural fear of man that domestic bulls don't have.  I've had a couple of experiences with bulls.  I was photographing wild turkeys from a ground blind when a heard of cows walked across in front of me.  The bull was bringing up the rear of the procession.  He stopped and stared into the ground blind for what seemed like an eternity.  He eventually moved on with the cows and I continued my photography.  Another time I was hunting deer in my own little patch of woods.  A farmer who had rented the neighboring pasture had put cattle in my woods without my knowledge (and without paying pasture rent I might add.)  I found myself with a tree between me and a mature bull.  I was armed at the time since I was hunting deer.  I thought to myself, come around this tree and I will shoot you.  The bull looked me over for a while and turned away.  Deer hunting was ruined so I went to find the interloping cattle owner.  He had obviously put up the gates in my woods so I knew he'd done it intensionally.  I told him I would wait while he moved his cattle out of my woods and if I found his bull in there again I would shoot it. Treat domestic livestock with caution and never believe they are big gentle beasts.  They can kill you just as dead accidentally.

LesPalenik

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2016, 01:11:44 am »

I wouldn't take any chances with a bull, all animals are unpredictable.
Even a small Bambi (1/10th of bull's weight) can inflict a serious damage.
Here is a clip of a raging doe trying to protect her young fawn (it's like Tina Turner doing Proud Mary - it starts nice and easy and ends up rough).

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/06/21/deer-attacks-dog-in-cranbrook_n_881050.html
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 04:09:42 am by LesPalenik »
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Colorado David

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 01:14:53 am »

I might add that the most dangerous animal in the world is the mosquito.  More people die every year from mosquito borne disease than from any or all other wild animals.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 03:56:27 am »

I might add that the most dangerous animal in the world is the mosquito.  More people die every year from mosquito borne disease than from any or all other wild animals.

Aren't most people killed by the actions of other people?

But bulls are temperamental and can switch behavior at any instant. Cows (depending on breed) with a calf might get protective, so just be careful to not get in between them. I'd avoid most bulls.

Cheers,
Bart
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dreed

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 04:59:21 am »

But bulls are temperamental and can switch behavior at any instant. Cows (depending on breed) with a calf might get protective, so just be careful to not get in between them. I'd avoid most bulls.
...

Yes, this is what had me concerned. In the end it seemed like a poke in the nose made it back off but you really don't know what it is thinking or if it will shy away and go back to what's important or decide it is feeling bored and that you represent "fun" or a chance to "show off."

As I was working my way through the trees, a number of cows went scrambling down the pasture. Back up further I could see what appeared to be a couple of bulls staring each other down (I didn't see anything happen or hear and nor did I hang around to see what was going to happen.)
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LesPalenik

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 05:19:57 am »

I might add that the most dangerous animal in the world is the mosquito.  More people die every year from mosquito borne disease than from any or all other wild animals.
Well, if a mosquito bites the bull in some sensitive place not protected by the hide, it could make the bull really angry.
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RSL

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2016, 08:18:37 am »

A lot more important than learning to handle bulls is learning to handle bullshit. We all seem to have trouble with that, and it can kill us all.
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Rob C

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2016, 09:29:45 am »

A lot more important than learning to handle bulls is learning to handle bullshit. We all seem to have trouble with that, and it can kill us all.

Especially when it comes to casting votes... I feel as if my future is hanging on the mindless whim of people back in Britain; people who often don't ask questions, see only the things pointed out and only as they are pointed out... why? Because, in general, there is little interest in anything beyond the parochial. Consider the news services and shudder at how limited the broader picture presented.

I used to watch Sky News every morning with breakfast, then discovered France 24 (in English!) and the difference is amazing. Yes, the French thing seems to operate on a lower budget, does lots of repeats, unfortunately, but at least does force one's nose outwith what would be local scene for the natural viewer - France. So much going down everywhere, and Sky-only viewers would never know... Can't comment on the Beeb anymore - the dish can't catch it - and I don't want Internet in even bigger doses - I leave the Internet for special programmes other than the news.

Scary days!

Rob
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 09:32:59 am by Rob C »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 11:51:41 am »

Not to veer off-topic too much, but the will of the majority is always wrong and even evil when it doesn't do what we want, but possesses the wisdom of the ages when it agrees with us.

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Robert

RSL

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2016, 12:05:01 pm »

I might add that the most dangerous animal in the world is the mosquito.  More people die every year from mosquito borne disease than from any or all other wild animals.

Right, David. And we once had a solution to this problem: DDT. Then Rachel Carson, an "environmental advocate" who was worried about birds not being able to reproduce (which, as it turns out isn't necessarily true) wrote Silent Spring. The left leapt into action and banned DDT. As a result, now, instead of keeping birds from reproducing we're killing massive numbers of people, especially in countries that can't afford other kinds of protection. It's a typical example of government intelligence and efficiency.
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Rob C

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2016, 03:11:38 pm »

Not to veer off-topic too much, but 1. the will of the majority is always wrong and even evil when it doesn't do what we want, but 2.  possesses the wisdom of the ages when it agrees with us.


This can be absolutely true, both ways, depending on the type of majority one's talking about.

1. When you lump the entire population into a single, voting mass, on pretty much anything I can think about, the chance of that lump voting the 'right' way is slim; once in a while it gets it right, as much by charm offensive from the protagonists seeking the votes, as any argument they might forward.

I think this is borne out in general elections, for example, where successive left and then right governments have replaced one another fairly regularly. That their sentiments and policies ever change very much is not real; all that changes is the face presented to the voting public. Scratch the surface and the same beast bites you after picking your pocket.

2. Sometimes, within a peer grouping, the vote will be correct, because it will probably be based more upon dispassionate and clinical judgements.

In effect, democracy is still not a very good way of deciding anything, but we don't really have another working solution that excludes dictatorships and even worse circumstances hitting us all. It's not even as if education was going to solve it; you get as many lefties as righties in universities as anywhere else, but that may well be the product of youthful 'revolt' for some, or even of social/background grudge/prejudice on the part of others.

I really think that unless we reach a point where pretty much everyone earns the same salary, fiscal considerations will always divide people. There are those who don't earn much; those who earn a lot, and those who do as little as possible but want to share the goodies that the hard-working people sometimes earn. How can they vote with similar ethical points of view?

We'd have to begin with the losing of envy and the abolishment of greed. Impossible.

Rob

dreed

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2016, 04:55:30 pm »

I might add that the most dangerous animal in the world is the mosquito. More people die every year from mosquito borne disease than from any or all other wild animals.

Ok, and how does that relate to the topic of dealing with bulls in fields? Would you like to start another thread about vaccinations for malaria, etc, when traveling to parts of the world that are at risk for photography?
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Rob C

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2016, 05:09:28 pm »

Ok, and how does that relate to the topic of dealing with bulls in fields? Would you like to start another thread about vaccinations for malaria, etc, when traveling to parts of the world that are at risk for photography?

Well, if a mosquito bites the bull in some sensitive place not protected by the hide, it could make the bull really angry.

Tony Jay

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Re: How to handle bulls when on a shoot?
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2016, 06:28:49 pm »

Ok, and how does that relate to the topic of dealing with bulls in fields? Would you like to start another thread about vaccinations for malaria, etc, when traveling to parts of the world that are at risk for photography?
Lets not be too harsh on David.
Perhaps it is my bad for generalising the issue and taking it beyond merely being chased around by bulls in Europe.

So, humble apologies.

Tony Jay
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