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Author Topic: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks  (Read 3598 times)

Garnick

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Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« on: May 30, 2016, 03:35:37 pm »

For a couple of my customers I'm using the Enhanced Matte paper for certain jobs.  Personally I'd rather not, but that seems to be what they want and the price point they are looking for.  However, and I believe I've seen this issue on the forum some years ago, when there is an abundance of black in the image it reproduces as a mottled or blotchy black instead of smooth.  I'm wondering if anyone has a fix for this annoyance, perhaps adjusting the drying time, platen gap etc.  It's almost as if the printer is laying down too much ink in the blacks and they are not drying evenly, and since I'm using only the Epson driver I have little control over that.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Gary   
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Gary N.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 04:01:57 pm »

Hi Gary - what printer, what profile, what Media Type setting in the printer driver?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Garnick

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 04:29:53 pm »

Hi Gary - what printer, what profile, what Media Type setting in the printer driver?

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply.  I was in a bit of a rush getting this post together and sent.  After I sent I realized I had forgotten to include some pertinent information.  Printer is the SP9900, Profile is the canned Epson Enhanced Matte version, which I've been using for many years and have seen this issue a number of times, depending on the amount of heavy black in the image.  Media Type - Enhanced Matte, which I assume was the original setting, since I don't recall ever changing that.  However, that might be worth exploring.  If so, what Media Type might you suggest. 

By the way, I'll be in touch by PM soon concerning another Silverfast question.

Thanks Mark,
Gary     
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Gary N.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 04:38:33 pm »

Gary - yes worth checking that the selected Media type in the driver matches the paper you are printing with. In principle there should be no excess lay-down of Black ink if using Epson paper in an Epson printer with the correct profile and Media Type selected. You should check other driver settings to make sure they are in their default positions. You may wish to make a print with Printer Color Management to see whether or not the same thing happens; so in the negative, it could be a colour management issue. The only other suggestions I have would be (a) a physical problem with the printer, or (b) perhaps improved performance with a custom profile.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Fulvio Senore

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 12:39:50 pm »

For a couple of my customers I'm using the Enhanced Matte paper for certain jobs.  Personally I'd rather not, but that seems to be what they want and the price point they are looking for.  However, and I believe I've seen this issue on the forum some years ago, when there is an abundance of black in the image it reproduces as a mottled or blotchy black instead of smooth.

It's a well known feature of that paper.
I read some time ago that Epson released a new version that fixed that problem, but maybe it is not completely true, or maybe you have an old stock.

There are other papers at similar prices that perform much better. I use the Felix Schoeller ones but they might not be easy to find. Felix Schoeller sells paper to many others that rebrand the paper so maybe you can find it under different names.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 01:19:50 pm »

It's a well known feature of that paper.


"Well-known" where, by who and since when? I've used that paper in its previous and present formulations and NEVER had that problem on a succession of Epson printers, nor have I seen much traffic on it - over the past 15 years. Epson has sold tonnes of this stuff over that time period and continues to do so; wouldn't happen if it were inherently defective. (I don't use it any longer because I prefer papers that have less OBA and better Maximum Black, but that's a different story.) Gary has a specific issue with ink laydown that I expect is related either to profiles/settings or to a printer malfunction.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Garnick

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2016, 03:20:25 pm »

"Well-known" where, by who and since when? I've used that paper in its previous and present formulations and NEVER had that problem on a succession of Epson printers, nor have I seen much traffic on it - over the past 15 years. Epson has sold tonnes of this stuff over that time period and continues to do so; wouldn't happen if it were inherently defective. (I don't use it any longer because I prefer papers that have less OBA and better Maximum Black, but that's a different story.) Gary has a specific issue with ink laydown that I expect is related either to profiles/settings or to a printer malfunction.

Hello again Mark,

It's been busy here and I haven't had an opportunity to get back to this thread that I started.  Just had a minute to read your most recent reply and to do a search for this issue.  I was sure I had seen it addressed a few years ago, but it would seem that it has been lingering longer than I had remembered.  I thought I recalled someone writing that Epson had addressed the issue and that it had apparently been solved.  However, the new(er) version or replacement, "Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte" seems to have the same issue as the previous version.  I do have a more recent(I believe) of the roll product, so I will test that as well, since I do have a rather large volume of printing that requires this paper.  Here is the link to the search I mentioned, and a number of people chimed in with the same symptoms: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?action=search2.  Thought you might want to take a look Mark.

Back to work, but I will offer some information on the EnhMatte Roll, as opposed to the sheet sizes I have.

Gary
   

 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 03:52:31 pm by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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Garnick

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 05:12:15 pm »

Well, I just four tests, and finally found the culprit.  I printed a black patch on the EhnMatte sheet paper that I have had for a while, although I didn't think it had been kicking around for too long.  As expected, it showed the mottling quite noticeably.  I then printed the same black patch on the Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte, which I assumed is the newer version of EnhMatte, and it exhibited the same issue exactly.  I then printed the patch on a 17" roll of EnhMatte with the same issue.  I printed the patch on a 24" roll and it was beautifully smooth. 

Conclusion: All of the EnhMatte paper sizes I have, except for the 24" roll, are of the older version, since they all exhibit the same mottling issue in the black or dark shadow areas. 

Looks like I'll be ordering some new stock.

Gary
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Gary N.
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Fulvio Senore

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 05:16:31 pm »

"Well-known" where, by who and since when? I've used that paper in its previous and present formulations and NEVER had that problem on a succession of Epson printers, nor have I seen much traffic on it - over the past 15 years. Epson has sold tonnes of this stuff over that time period and continues to do so; wouldn't happen if it were inherently defective. (I don't use it any longer because I prefer papers that have less OBA and better Maximum Black, but that's a different story.) Gary has a specific issue with ink laydown that I expect is related either to profiles/settings or to a printer malfunction.

Nice to see that you have already found the cause of Gary's problem.

Anyway, the black quality problem, for instance, is reported here:

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=98701.msg827858#msg827858

and here:

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=36001.msg295589#msg295589

I have seen it with my eyes and it is reported in other printing sites, but they are in Italian.

Fulvio
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2016, 05:52:43 pm »

OK, two short threads involving a few people doesn't quite make it a "well-known" issue. I'll take your word for it on the Italian sites as I can't read Italian.

Glad Gary solved his problem but I still have my doubts about previous versions of this paper causing such a problem, i.e. I don't understand the mechanics or chemistry of the paper being the culprit.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Garnick

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2016, 11:16:16 pm »

OK, two short threads involving a few people doesn't quite make it a "well-known" issue. I'll take your word for it on the Italian sites as I can't read Italian.

Glad Gary solved his problem but I still have my doubts about previous versions of this paper causing such a problem, i.e. I don't understand the mechanics or chemistry of the paper being the culprit.

Hi Mark,

I must agree, since I have no knowledge of the chemical makeup of these papers either, and therefore, no knowledge of how or why that would affect the way the black ink is reacting and showing a definite mottled appearance.  Since I don't use a lot of this paper(2 customers only), the 24" roll mentioned in my last post has been in my possession for perhaps a year I would think.  Which means that the 17" roll and sheet sizes date back even further, so they were obviously from the older version of this paper and showed the black mottling/blotching effect.  As I mentioned, the first test on the 24" roll was, in Blue Jays terminology, a Grand Slam Home Run.  The black patch was perfectly smooth across the whole test print.  Since I'll be printing a number of images tomorrow containing a lot of absolute black, I will be using the 24" roll, regardless of the image size, so I'll likely be ganging some of them into a single document to save paper.  Unfortunately the box for the 24" roll has long since disappeared, so I have no way of knowing if the label made any reference to better black performance.

Now here's another rather disturbing issue.  A couple of months ago I printed a rather large image containing a considerable span of almost pure black on 24" Cold Press Natural.  I guess that was probably the first image with so much pure black that I had printed on that paper, even though I use CPN a lot.  In that case I noticed that there was a degree of mottling in the black as well, although not quite as obvious as the EnhMatte paper.  That was a 24x36 print, so I decided to try one more print and make sure my preset hadn't somehow become corrupted.  I checked the preset settings and they were all correct, but the second print exhibited the same mottling as the first one.  I then cropped out an 8x10 black area of the full size image and printed it twice on CPN 8.5x11 sheet.  In that case there was no mottling at all, which tends to make me believe that for some reason the CPN sheet and roll are actually two different formulations to some degree.  I had intended to post that situation as well, but work got in the way.  I wonder if anyone else has noticed this.

Gary     


   
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 08:23:25 am by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 11:37:47 pm »

Gary, the fundamental problem I have with all this is that if the Media Type in the driver and in the Profile both correspond with each other and with the paper being used, the printer should be applying ink in a manner that does not cause the problems you encountered. So singling out the paper as being the problem leaves me in a quandary. I think it would be worthwhile giving Epson tech support a call for a discussion about this. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there could be a problem with your printer, but I would have no way of knowing that.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Garnick

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2016, 08:52:58 am »

Gary, the fundamental problem I have with all this is that if the Media Type in the driver and in the Profile both correspond with each other and with the paper being used, the printer should be applying ink in a manner that does not cause the problems you encountered. So singling out the paper as being the problem leaves me in a quandary. I think it would be worthwhile giving Epson tech support a call for a discussion about this. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there could be a problem with your printer, but I would have no way of knowing that.

Hi Mark,

I assume you might have read some of the posts on the link I sent along concerning this issue, so the only response I can offer here is that I know all of my settings were correct.  Media Type and profile as required.  Although, since this is indeed a canned profile, the media type was already set at EnhMatte.  The other side of this is the tests I described on both sheet and roll EnhMatte paper.  Also the "fact" that apparently Epson new there was a problem and fixed it.  Again, all of my tests were done with the proper media type and profile for EnhMatte, and the 24" roll, which was the most recent one I had purchased, was the only paper that produced the black as it should be.  The difference was very obvious as soon as it exited the printer.  No further drying time needed, the black was smooth throughout the black patch(5x8").  I realize it might seem unusual that this would or could be a paper issue alone, but I think we all know it wouldn't be the first time problems with paper consistency have emerged.  As far as the issue I bumped into with the Cold Press Natural Roll is concerned, I will be testing that again within the next couple of days and I will also report my findings.  And in that case I tried three different Media Types in the driver, all exhibiting the same results, mottling in the pure black areas.  And again, the same area did not show the effect on sheet CPN(with the proper Media Type and Profile).  The fact that this does not show on any of the luster paper sizes seems to rule out the possibility of a printer issue, but of course I will not necessarily rule it out.  I had a new print head installed in February and the tech did an overall check of the machine at that time as well.  Of course this issue was there before the print head change and it still is, but not with the newer version of EnhMatte.

Conclusion:  Since all of the printer settings were correct(checked and rechecked each time) and the only variable was the 24" roll of EnhMatte, that would seem to point directly to the paper difference, not the
                   printer.  I have ruled out the mechanics and I am now left with the paper as the culprit.  When I get in touch with you again perhaps we can carry on this conversation Mark.  And by the way, if my
                   next set of tests with the Cold Press natural still exhibit the mottling in pure black on the roll stock, I will definitely be in touch with Epson Tech.

Gary         


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Gary N.
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pmiles

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2016, 02:42:59 am »

this issue of epson enhanced matte blotchy blacks  is also covered in this tread here  http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=98701.msg827858#msg827858
I have been using Epson enhanced Matte paper roll paper regularly over the years. The blotchy appearance of full black on Epson enhanced matte paper with standard driver setting was definitely the norm. That's until about a year ago when I received a box of epson enhanced matte from my suppliers with a sticker on it saying "improved black quality". I immediately tested with a 100% black patch printed on it and found the mottle black issue had been fixed. it was velvety smooth all the way down to full black.

After that I refused to accept any old stock Epson enhanced Matte roll paper without this sticker from my supplier. My suppliers are the Epson agents here in New Zealand.
Just recently they ran out of the "improved black quality" stock of Epson enhanced matte that I'd been using. All their new Epson enhanced matte media was being received  with no stickers.
I held back placing an order with my supplier till they could find out what was going on. He contacted his Epson, but they responded that they  "never heard of "improved black quality" media".  Eventually I bit the bullet and bought one of the new un-stickered Epson enhanced matte stock. Running test prints against my existing stock of "improved black quality" stickered enhanced matte I still had, showed the black mottle issue still remains fixed.



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Richard.Wills

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Re: Enhanced Matte - Blotchy Blacks
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2016, 06:19:44 pm »

I've seen this in the past, but not recently, on our backup 9800. I'll try to have a look at the packaging.

Strangely, saw a very similar mottling on Epson Kozo thin the other day, which took three days to disappear (print was run on the Canon 8400). Was very concerned for a couple of days, as we're getting great results on the Kozo. I haven't had the time to test another print, and accelerate the drying. Fortunately we seldom print images which are 80% pitch black coverage.
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