Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question  (Read 8469 times)

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« on: May 29, 2016, 09:44:53 pm »

I know that you can shoot from live view with the IQ3 100. 

However, if someone eventually developed an electric leaf shutter for a technical camera that worked in the same fashion as a leaf shutter in DSLRs (that being it always remains open until you press the release, then closes, fires, and opens again), would you be able to shoot from live in this set up as well? 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Chris Barrett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 730
    • www.christopherbarrett.net
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 07:57:36 am »

Arca has such a shutter in the Dex system, which could add on to your R.  The Alpa FPS and the Hcam sport them as well.  I don't see why there would be any issues with live view.  Actually, I'm not sure what you're asking.  Whether or not LiveView would be usable with such a shutter, or whether you can trigger an exposure during LiveView?

-CB

EDIT:  Oh... you said "Leaf Shutter"  yeah, I don't see that ever happening.  I could be wrong, but I doubt it.  I think they'll always be focal plane shutters.

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 02:16:42 pm »

... whether you can trigger an exposure during LiveView?

-CB

EDIT:  Oh... you said "Leaf Shutter"  yeah, I don't see that ever happening.  I could be wrong, but I doubt it.  I think they'll always be focal plane shutters.

This is what I am pretty much asking.  If I shot a lifestyle image on my Arca, would I be able to view live view on my laptop and shoot at the same time?  Working pretty much like I would on a dSLR, viewing the image, then when I press the release, the shutter closes, fires and opens again.  Does the Arca FPS system work like this? 

I am guessing this should be the case, but I would not be surprised if there was some kind of firmware in the IQ3 100 that only allows for it when working with the XF system. 

Also, I am kind of disappointed that no one in furthering the development of electronic leaf shutters and focusing instead on FPS.  I realize that there are advantages to FPS, but there are many advantages to leaf shutters as well. 

I would rather have a leaf shutter if given the option. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 03:26:47 pm »

What you are asking is a function of the MFDB used, not of the shutter... I guess if one is using a back in LV mode and fires his Rollei shutter through the Rollei Control S the shutter will operate normally... it's the back that won't record the image. What you mean by "develop electronic shutters further"? What do they luck? FPS shutters are made so that one can have a shutter if a lens without leaf shutter (or ability to take one) is used... No other reason...
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 04:13:34 pm »

What you are asking is a function of the MFDB used, not of the shutter... I guess if one is using a back in LV mode and fires his Rollei shutter through the Rollei Control S the shutter will operate normally... it's the back that won't record the image. What you mean by "develop electronic shutters further"? What do they luck? FPS shutters are made so that one can have a shutter if a lens without leaf shutter (or ability to take one) is used... No other reason...

The current electronic leaf shutters shuttesr are not so great.  The Rollie shutter that was in development but never came to market looked very promising, but it seems no one is taking the reigns on developing the current offerings further. 

The ones on the market now are not field friendly with all of the cables and controllers. 

But like I mentioned before, whether or not the back would actually take the picture could be very well dependent on how the back is designed to operate in Live View.  It could very well be that the new IQ3 100 would only work in Live View on the XF body. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2016, 04:49:48 pm »

The current electronic leaf shutters shuttesr are not so great.  The Rollie shutter that was in development but never came to market looked very promising, but it seems no one is taking the reigns on developing the current offerings further. 

The ones on the market now are not field friendly with all of the cables and controllers. 

But like I mentioned before, whether or not the back would actually take the picture could be very well dependent on how the back is designed to operate in Live View.  It could very well be that the new IQ3 100 would only work in Live View on the XF body.

I still don't understand... a shutter needs one to "tell" it the speed and aperture that will be used and also provide power from the battery... Therefore a cable is needed to connect it with a "control box" (or command) that can do that... Then the control must be connected to the back as to synchronize/activate it...  Usually these controls are in the camera body for a DSLR...

Also, what is the Rollei shutter that was in development and never came out? I'm unaware of that! 
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 05:39:56 pm »

I still don't understand... a shutter needs one to "tell" it the speed and aperture that will be used and also provide power from the battery... Therefore a cable is needed to connect it with a "control box" (or command) that can do that... Then the control must be connected to the back as to synchronize/activate it...  Usually these controls are in the camera body for a DSLR...

Also, what is the Rollei shutter that was in development and never came out? I'm unaware of that!

All of the leaf shutters for tech cameras available now use thick proprietary cables and controllers that are large and bulky.  Not to mention need separate battery supply.  Too much to carry around. 

The (next generation) Rollie shutter used a Mini USB cable to power & control the shutter through a smart phone app.  All you needed was one commonly available thin cable and your phone to work the shutter (in addition to the sync to the back, which you already need anyway).  It did use a lot of power, but the add-on batteries for smart phones (like the Mophie) solved that problem. 

Rollie could never fully work out the bugs in the iPhone software before going bully up. 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 11:41:27 am by JoeKitchen »
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 06:11:57 pm »

It's true most view cameras are of "archaic" design, but OTOH, this makes them cross compatible with all shorts of different lenses and backs... IMO one doesn't need an electronic shutter with a view camera in anything other than using a multishot back as to shoot stills... The bad thing is of course that then one has to go through the trouble to start changing the shutters.. But I guess if one uses a P1 one back he doesn't need an electronic shutter at all... OTOH I see it all changing in the near future... I see FF mirrorless dominating the area and replacing MFDBs altogether... especially as one would then need no cables at all and even no leaf shutter in his lenses.  I also expect multishot to be widely offered among mirrorless in the near future and then the lenses  used to be mainly out of the existing base of MF cameras.
Logged

Chris Barrett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 730
    • www.christopherbarrett.net
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2016, 10:07:38 pm »

I've been pretty happy with the focal plane shutter that is built in to my Sony digital back.

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2016, 04:07:46 am »

I've been pretty happy with the focal plane shutter that is built in to my Sony digital back.

A couple of questions please Chris... 1. Why the 7RII and not the α7ΙΙ? Wouldn't the larger pixels be better on a view camera?  2.How much "throw" (distance covered in mm for a full 360 degree turn) does the focusing knob of the MF-2 has and how much the one on the Universallis? Thanks.
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2016, 08:30:38 am »

Hi,

Chris uses the A7rII with Hasselblad and Canon lenses mainly and those lenses have no large beam angles. The A7rII has BSI and that might be a slight advantage, as it makes for shallower pits.

Best regards
Erik


A couple of questions please Chris... 1. Why the 7RII and not the α7ΙΙ?
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

Brent Daniels

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 11:39:45 am »

Last October at the large photo gear show in NYC I talked to a man at Rodenstock about electronic shutters. He showed me an item that he said was about a year away from market. It was about the size of the Schneider electronic shutter (smaller than my Rollei shutters), was to go to around 1000th of a second, and be controllable by an iPhone I think. Basically it sounded and looked like the piece that Rollei was working on. No idea where it is at now.
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 02:30:04 pm »

Last October at the large photo gear show in NYC I talked to a man at Rodenstock about electronic shutters. He showed me an item that he said was about a year away from market. It was about the size of the Schneider electronic shutter (smaller than my Rollei shutters), was to go to around 1000th of a second, and be controllable by an iPhone I think. Basically it sounded and looked like the piece that Rollei was working on. No idea where it is at now.

That sounds pretty awesome! 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 05:05:03 pm »

That sounds pretty awesome!

Yeah, but Joe... why use an electronic shutter at all with a single shot back?  and more... 1/1000 shutter on a view camera? ....Why?  Also... I think its best to stick with MF lenses than "special" view camera lenses  if you insist on using the Sony 100MP sensor on an MFDB with the Actus... OTOH, I also think that you'd be much better off if you would use a Sony α7 for the particular job... If you are looking for the absolute best though, the Leica SL would be it... Both mirrorless won't beat (by little) an old Kodak 22/39mp sensor or a Dalsa 22/33mp sensor, but they don't need shutters, don't need a new series of lenses and would beat the above mentioned MFDBs for accurate focusing and workflow handling (both of which are of major importance for one to achieve an awesome result with a view camera)...
Logged

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2016, 05:32:22 pm »

Hi,

Chris uses the A7rII with Hasselblad and Canon lenses mainly and those lenses have no large beam angles. The A7rII has BSI and that might be a slight advantage, as it makes for shallower pits.

Best regards
Erik

I know your opinion as you've mentioned it before in other conversations (which I don't agree with as there more aspects to consider)... I would still like to hear from Chris though who is an experienced  working pro on architectural photography.
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2016, 05:55:23 pm »

Hi Theodoros,

Yes, I would be interested in Chris responding to the question, too…

On the other hand, I have pretty much the same lenses that Chris uses, except the Canon 17/4 TS and I also use a couple other lenses (*). I actually shoot those lenses on a technical camera, sort of. The HCam doesn't give 20 mm of usable shift, perhaps 12-15 mm, depending on lens.

I own both an A7rII and an A7II, although I see the A7II as a backup and have not done a lot of comparisons. So, I have some experience with the gear you are discussing.

Best regards
Erik

(*) Chris now also owns the Canon 11-24/4 lens. I don't have that one either.

The lenses I have used or tested on the HCam are: Pentax 67 45/4, Distagon 40/4 CF, Distagon 60/3.5 CF, Planar 100/3.5 CF, Canon 16-35/4L, Canon 24-105/4L, Contax 28-85/3.3-4 and Contax 35-135/3.3-4.5. In addition, I also have the Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII, but I seldom use it on the HCam as it can do T&S on it's own.


I know your opinion as you've mentioned it before in other conversations (which I don't agree with as there more aspects to consider)... I would still like to hear from Chris though who is an experienced  working pro on architectural photography.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 06:01:41 pm by ErikKaffehr »
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2016, 06:29:34 pm »

Hi Theodoros,

Yes, I would be interested in Chris responding to the question, too…

On the other hand, I have pretty much the same lenses that Chris uses, except the Canon 17/4 TS and I also use a couple other lenses (*). I actually shoot those lenses on a technical camera, sort of. The HCam doesn't give 20 mm of usable shift, perhaps 12-15 mm, depending on lens.

I own both an A7rII and an A7II, although I see the A7II as a backup and have not done a lot of comparisons. So, I have some experience with the gear you are discussing.

Best regards
Erik

(*) Chris now also owns the Canon 11-24/4 lens. I don't have that one either.

The lenses I have used or tested on the HCam are: Pentax 67 45/4, Distagon 40/4 CF, Distagon 60/3.5 CF, Planar 100/3.5 CF, Canon 16-35/4L, Canon 24-105/4L, Contax 28-85/3.3-4 and Contax 35-135/3.3-4.5. In addition, I also have the Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII, but I seldom use it on the HCam as it can do T&S on it's own.


The H cam can't tilt or swing... tilting and swinging affects lens to sensor relation more than shifting does... I suspect that Chris' usual subjects are different in their approach than mine and that they require little or no tilting... That would also explain the use of the M2 F as it only has tilts and swings on the front standard and only shifts on the rear... This is no disadvantage on a view camera, as (I'm sure) Chris knows that it's wrong to use shifts combined with tilts if the nodal point of the lens isn't positioned exactly at the center of the "tilt arc's circle" (as it happens with the lenses that Chris uses...that's why I want to hear from Chris...
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2016, 09:44:20 pm »

Hi,

It tilts eleven degrees, one of the main reasons I bought it...

Just to say, this thread is not about the A7-series but about live view on the IQ3 100, so let us not kidnap it with A7r discussions. The A7rII can be very useful, if you need up to 42 MP and plan to use SLR type lenses, but it is no a replacement for a full frame 645 digital back at 100MP.

Best regards
Erik



The H cam can't tilt or swing... tilting and swinging affects lens to sensor relation more than shifting does... I suspect that Chris' usual subjects are different in their approach than mine and that they require little or no tilting... That would also explain the use of the M2 F as it only has tilts and swings on the front standard and only shifts on the rear... This is no disadvantage on a view camera, as (I'm sure) Chris knows that it's wrong to use shifts combined with tilts if the nodal point of the lens isn't positioned exactly at the center of the "tilt arc's circle" (as it happens with the lenses that Chris uses...that's why I want to hear from Chris...
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 03:02:32 am by ErikKaffehr »
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2016, 06:12:50 am »

Just curious, what are the advantages of a leaf shutter on a tech system instead of a focal plane shutter? I'm assuming that it has something to do with studio flash photography?

The only advantage I see for my own landscape photography is that you can have really short flange distances, like seen on the SK28XL, but the current sensor designs can't handle those anyway.
Logged

vjbelle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
Re: Tech Camera & IQ3 100 Question
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2016, 07:54:55 am »

Just curious, what are the advantages of a leaf shutter on a tech system instead of a focal plane shutter? I'm assuming that it has something to do with studio flash photography?

The only advantage I see for my own landscape photography is that you can have really short flange distances, like seen on the SK28XL, but the current sensor designs can't handle those anyway.

Elimination of shutter vibration......  I have never used a focal plane shutter that didn't exhibit some sort of vibration.

Victor
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up